• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

4CM - Getting Levels Correct

Hey all, so I am wanting to use the 4CM with my Rivera Venus Duex Recording 55w amp, and use the axefx just for effects only. I know how to route the cables and all that, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around getting the levels and output knobs set correctly. Here are some of the issues/questions i'm having.

I/O Page
1) Instrument Input - Nothing happens when I adjust this, the level stays the same no matter how far up or down I roll the knob, is this normal?

2) Input 1 and Input 2 - I can get these guys set correctly "tickle the Red LEDs" i'm at about 55% on each, BUT when I go to crank the Volume knob on my amp itself, output 2 Red LED's basically stay on full. The further I roll the Volume knob up on my amp it begins to sound like I peak at a certain volume level and then things get squashed/fizzy almost "clipping" sound but the OUTPUT clip indicator on OUTPUT 2 does not light up...seems strange to me. OUTPUT 2 knob is at 100% fyi.

3) I have also adjusted the boost/pad parameters accordingly, I think I ended up with 3db on OUTPUT 1 and 12 DB on output 2. Does that seem accurate? I understand guitars and amps are all different so its really a ballpark question.

OUTPUT KNOBS:
1) Do I roll both output knobs on the front ALL the way up for Unity gain, or is that just on OUTPUT 2?

Lastly, generally I understand that most effects like Reverb, Delay and some pitch stuff work best in an FX loop...but is there REALLY that much of a difference if everything was just ran into the front of the AMP? I ask, bc it would be way easier to just run the axefx into the front of the amp...I would like yalls opinion on that.
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
First run it in your fx loop using tha fx loop side of the 4 cable and plug straight in the amp look at the input out put meters on the utility page you want your output to match what your preamps inputting
When you have those levels at unity you should have the same tone as your amp plugged straight in it can be really tedious to get a perfect 4 cable set up but the fx loop bit is the hardest and most important
After that listen to how your guitar sounds going into your amp
You might need a low instrument input level to match what your guitar dose with your amp
If your input level is to high then you will be hitting your amp with a harder signal then if you were just plugged straight in
Keep tweeking and don’t give up you are close to what you want
The preamp has to be unity with its out put and the guitar should be unity with its corasponding meter
They don’t all have to hit the same spot that would be forcing your amp to take a signal it wouldn’t usually take without the axe fx
Just listen to the meters give them what they ask for and listen to the amp
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
Hey all, so I am wanting to use the 4CM with my Rivera Venus Duex Recording 55w amp, and use the axefx just for effects only. I know how to route the cables and all that, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around getting the levels and output knobs set correctly. Here are some of the issues/questions i'm having.

I/O Page
1) Instrument Input - Nothing happens when I adjust this, the level stays the same no matter how far up or down I roll the knob, is this normal?

2) Input 1 and Input 2 - I can get these guys set correctly "tickle the Red LEDs" i'm at about 55% on each, BUT when I go to crank the Volume knob on my amp itself, output 2 Red LED's basically stay on full. The further I roll the Volume knob up on my amp it begins to sound like I peak at a certain volume level and then things get squashed/fizzy almost "clipping" sound but the OUTPUT clip indicator on OUTPUT 2 does not light up...seems strange to me. OUTPUT 2 knob is at 100% fyi.

3) I have also adjusted the boost/pad parameters accordingly, I think I ended up with 3db on OUTPUT 1 and 12 DB on output 2. Does that seem accurate? I understand guitars and amps are all different so its really a ballpark question.

OUTPUT KNOBS:
1) Do I roll both output knobs on the front ALL the way up for Unity gain, or is that just on OUTPUT 2?.
Try out put nobs at 50 % you could be clipping your amps input or power amp
 
I kind of follow what you are saying. So run the axefx into the FX loop ONLY and plug my pedalboard/Guitar STRAIGHT into the amp.

How do I know the input and outputs are matched?
When you are referring to Unity, do you mean BOTH output knobs need to be cranked? Or that the Input/Output meters need to match?
Can you elaborate a bit more on this:
"The preamp has to be unity with its out put and the guitar should be unity with its corasponding meter"

sorry, trying to wrap my head around this, but thank you for the help.
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
Use the output metered in the utility page that’s the only way to see unity gain happen
If you see in2L is really high but output 2L is low then use the fxloop block level To raise it
To match but you also have to consider that having input 2 set too high will color your tone and slightly boost your preamp

The single most important thing is to know the amp your working with and know what volume you want it set at when you play plugged straight in set it and leave it then use the axe fx with your amp without changing the channel volume or master volume

Now you don’t have to worry about the amp
So you can start shaping the input output gain to match what you heard when you where plugged straight in it is a working process with lots of variables to consider go in steps
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
I kind of follow what you are saying. So run the axefx into the FX loop ONLY and plug my pedalboard/Guitar STRAIGHT into the amp.

How do I know the input and outputs are matched?
When you are referring to Unity, do you mean BOTH output knobs need to be cranked? Or that the Input/Output meters need to match?
Can you elaborate a bit more on this:
"The preamp has to be unity with its out put and the guitar should be unity with its corasponding meter"

sorry, trying to wrap my head around this, but thank you for the help.
Press utility on the front panel of your axe fx
Press page right a few times and you will see a output level page and then a page called vu meter
The input output page is what I was referring to it shows what’s happening with your signal


And I was backwards on accident what you want to do is unplug your connections and plug straight in your amp and set it how you want it to be volume and gain wise
Then hook up the input stage of the 4 cable method this means guitar into the axe fx run a shiny line of 4 blocks or so and then place the fx loop block but DO NOT connect it all the way threw just and the chain on the fx loop block and out of output 2 left into the amps input
Now match what you heard when your guitar was plugged straight in to the amp set your instrument in to tickle the red or just under and then use output 2 level to perfectly match your guitar when it’s plugged straight in the amp it could be under 50 % find that sweet spot you will know it will sound the same as plugging straight in
Now connect the fx loop side of the 4cm your amps fx send into input 2L and axe fx out put 1L into the amps fx return
Finnish the shunt line down to the output block and then press utility and go to the out put meters you will see input 2 left and output 1L these are the only things you have to work with I would start with out put 1 nob at 50% if you see that output one left meter is under the input 2 left then go into your grid and to the out put block and raise the level meter or go to output one global and raise the gain if you want to be able to make multiple presets and not have to tweek too much
You will have to raise the level and then press utility and check your input 2 left and output one meter you will be lifting the output 1 2 match the input of input 2
 
Ah I get it now. But man, i'm not sure I am keen on not being able to touch the Volume on my amp in a live setting. Sometimes I gotta lean over and some volume after we get goin or vice versa. Or does the AXEFX OUT1 become my master volume? The Rivera Venus Deux Recording is a single channel all clean amp with VOL, HI, MID, LOW, RESONANCE, and PRESENCE knob, thats it. I'm wondering if just putting the axefx in front will do the trick. I didn't hear TOO much of a difference in my time based effects being in front vs. being in the FX loop... hmmmm Thank you for the help though, I really appreciate it! I may make a tutorial vid since there really isn't a whole lot out there explaining and SHOWING this level unity technique.
 

Tpj1333

Inspired
Ah I get it now. But man, i'm not sure I am keen on not being able to touch the Volume on my amp in a live setting. Sometimes I gotta lean over and some volume after we get goin or vice versa. Or does the AXEFX OUT1 become my master volume? The Rivera Venus Deux Recording is a single channel all clean amp with VOL, HI, MID, LOW, RESONANCE, and PRESENCE knob, thats it. I'm wondering if just putting the axefx in front will do the trick. I didn't hear TOO much of a difference in my time based effects being in front vs. being in the FX loop... hmmmm Thank you for the help though, I really appreciate it! I may make a tutorial vid since there really isn't a whole lot out there explaining and SHOWING this level unity technique.
Yea dude with a super clean amp you wouldn’t tel the difference so much with delays and things
It’s all up to you man there is not much on these methods but there the ones that make all the difference
 
Top Bottom