4cm and foh

T

tguitar

Inspired
Hey guys I also posted this in the rigs and routing section but I'm looking for more info. Anyone run 4cm and also use a cab sim to go direct to FOH instead of micing your cab? Not quite sure what the routing would be for pre and post FX while also using the FX loop. Any routing ideas would be greatly appreciated (especially if anyone can explain if this would also be possible in stereo!). Thanks.
 
I do this. At the end of the chain, I branch off to another line in the grid and put a cab block there. I've found it doesn't matter if the cab block is after all the effects. In the output block, pan the original pathway, that goes to your tube amp return, to the left. Pan the other line that you put the cab block in to the right. In the I/O settings, set output 1 to stereo. Output 1 left goes to the tube amp return. Output 1 right goes to the board.

I've found it best to not max the output 1 volume on the front panel. On the tube amp, I set the channel volumes so that their input levels are correct, and then adjust overall volume with the output 1 knob on the front. It acts like a master volume. In the setup I'm describing, the front output 1 volume knob will also control the signal going to the board. If this is an issue, you could insert volume blocks somewhere to give separate control.

Also, a really good idea is to shoot a cab IR of your actual real cab and use that sim. Someone suggested I do that the other day, and the result was amazing. I found that the sound coming out of the FOH was very close to what was coming out of my real cab. This means that tone tweaking on your amp in a live setting won't screw up your sound in the FOH speakers. You can read my thread on this from a couple of days ago where I explain how I did this.


Here is the link:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/89564-foh-problem.html
 
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Awesome. You're a fucking legend. I've been using the axe FXL into power amp and out 1 to cab sim then FOH for so long that I didn't even think of that routing. Thanks. Can you run stereo FX this way too do you know or does everything have to run in mono? Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
 
naka2112 said:
I do this. At the end of the chain, I branch off to another line in the grid and put a cab block there. I've found it doesn't matter if the cab block is after all the effects. In the output block, pan the original pathway, that goes to your tube amp return, to the left. Pan the other line that you put the cab block in to the right. In the I/O settings, set output 1 to stereo. Output 1 left goes to the tube amp return. Output 1 right goes to the board.

I've found it best to not max the output 1 volume on the front panel. On the tube amp, I set the channel volumes so that their input levels are correct, and then adjust overall volume with the output 1 knob on the front. It acts like a master volume. In the setup I'm describing, the front output 1 volume knob will also control the signal going to the board. If this is an issue, you could insert volume blocks somewhere to give separate control.

Also, a really good idea is to shoot a cab IR of your actual real cab and use that sim. Someone suggested I do that the other day, and the result was amazing. I found that the sound coming out of the FOH was very close to what was coming out of my real cab. This means that tone tweaking on your amp in a live setting won't screw up your sound in the FOH speakers. You can read my thread on this from a couple of days ago where I explain how I did this.


Here is the link:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/89564-foh-problem.html
Click to expand...

Interesting. Could you post a pic of your grid? I haven't had much luck with the 4CM. It's a bit noisy for me.
 
tguitar said:
Awesome. You're a fucking legend. I've been using the axe FXL into power amp and out 1 to cab sim then FOH for so long that I didn't even think of that routing. Thanks. Can you run stereo FX this way too do you know or does everything have to run in mono? Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
Click to expand...

Well I'm running mono, and I think that'll be way more complicated because you would need the remaining output 2R; remember, output 2 is cranked to its max in the 4cm setup. Balancing left side and right side would then be a nightmare. Maybe somebody else has an idea here?

If you sacrifice having the wah and compression before your amp, you could run the entire axe in the loop of your amp: the 2cm. That would only use output 1. Then you could use output 2 L and R for stereo FOH. However, this also means you couldn't bypass your real preamp and use the modelled ones with your power amp.

Here's another idea that I've done with good results. Tone match your real preamp without the power amp (use the amp effects send into the tone matching block. Then, shoot an IR of your real cab. Then you can model your own sound and not have to drag your amp to a gig.

Guitar> effects>Modelled preamp from axe fx 2>tonematch of your preamp>IR of your cab>effects>FOH and monitors. If you use in ears, you'll get a stereo monitoring experience.
 
Finnster said:
Interesting. Could you post a pic of your grid? I haven't had much luck with the 4CM. It's a bit noisy for me.
Click to expand...

I'm on holidays, so I can't at the moment. This all from memory.

I've obsessed over the noise, and think I've got it as low as possible. I had to accept that it is electronically impossible not to introduce hiss when you put a digital processor in front of a high gain channel. All devices will introduce noise, and then the gain magnifies it. No way around it.

Having said that, I am using the 4cm with great results. Here is what I do to minimize hiss and eliminate hum

Guitar>axe input>out2 normal ts cable>radial big shot a/b/y isolated>amp input>amp send>axe fx in2>out1 humbuster cable>amp effects return.

In this method I've eliminated hum completely without killing the tone. The radial transformer does not affect the sound as far as I can tell. I found that using a humbuster cable on output 2 didn't completely get rid of the hum. The radial broke the ground loop when set to ISO and ground lifted.

In the I/O menu, I set the boost pad for output 2 to 12db. Output 2 on the front panel is cranked, but output 1 is used as a master volume typically set around 9 o'clock. This means the amp channels are set and pretty much stay put. Remaining hiss is eliminated with a gate on high gain patches.
 
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Thanks for the info. I've already played gigs w/o my amp. It's great and I dig it but I'd just also like to have the ability to use it if I choose. I do use some of the amp models though as well as the wah so just putting it in the loop won't work for me. But at least I have a great starting point...

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
 
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