48 hrs with the axe, and I am loosing my patience

TCASMARCUS

New Member
Hey guys! My first post here, and I am not even sure where to post. I am not even sure why I am posting this. Maybe it 's a desperate cry for help, or pity. Don 't even know where to start.. Been tweeking the Standard for a couple of days now, and I just need to share some thoughts, and maybe get some advice.
I have been reading the manual, I have been reading a lot of posts on this forum, and I have been searching all over the internet for more information so I can understand what the h*** IR ,I/O ,FRFR etc etc is all about. Still not sure about this and I am getting sick and tired of going through old forumposts..

I am using a Focusrite saffire pro 24 dsp, a good quality sennheiser headset, and 3 different Mayones guitars. After hours of research I ended up using a normal jack from output to Line in on the focusrite instead of xlr into the focusrite preamps. Firmware and patches has been updated. First impression of the standard 's preset banks was awful. The effects sounded nice but all the patches with gain sounded fake,fizzy and just like those awful cubase plugins like amplitube etc. At this point my old boss gt8 sounded better.

After reading all the praise about the tone matches from Songtan13, I downloaded all 300 or so of them,but I couldn 't get any sound. I opened the axe edit to try and fix this it but it froze constantly. I am now using the first beta version of axe edit and it seems to be working. I soon discovered that I would need to assign a cabinet into these tonematches to get a sound, but then I am only limited to 10?? So I have to go through all 300 or so, and then decide on only 10 to save on a permanent basis??? These tonematches sound a whole lot better btw, but I am still not convinced..

I am also having a lot of problems understanding the preset manager in axe edit. Left side shows you banks and presets you have downloaded, right? And right shows what you have inside the actual axe? But when I try to open downloaded patches from "source", I only get 1 or 2 patches sometimes. Works fine when I upload the standard bank a or b, but other single files just wont open..

And whats the deal with "axe-change"? 99% of all the patches there with gain sounds SOOOO bad! So far I have only found a couple of interresting synth swell pads that could be used for fun. Are there any good patches in there at all? And how come only 50% of them actually work on the Standard? Oh yeah, and once in a while the axe edit program just freezes, making sure that my last 30 minutes of work goes down the drain. Superb!

I guess I was hoping that the axe could produce some quality tones from scratch, so I could focus on playing guitar, and writing songs, instead of nerding about with technical issues for days. I guess the complexity of the axe is what a lot of people want. But for this price, I just think it should sound better, and be easier to operate. I 've always said that if you can 't find a good tone on your amp within 5 minutes, you 've got the wrong amp. In this case I am guessing it should be more like 5 weeks, eh?

I know, the Standard is getting cheap and old. But it should still kick the boss gt-8 's ass, right? And what about the axe 2? It costs twice as much, so is it twice as good? For now, there is no way the axe will replace my real amp (peavey jsx 100w). I am not even sure if it will replace my boss gt-8! So I am kind of hoping that any of you guys could say "oh, you forget to switch the magical button" or something like that. Or maybe give me a little bit of hope.
 
all the patches with gain sounded fake,fizzy and just like those awful cubase plugins like amplitube etc. At this point my old boss gt8 sounded better.
You have cab simulation and/or poweramp simulation disabled in the global menu.

EDIT: I'd suggest you to reset the system (utility menu) and reboot the unit.
 
This is probably not what you want to hear but I was constantly frustrated with my Ultra over the 4 years I used it. Axe-II was a game changer. When I got mine I realised I wasn't likely to go back to tube amps.
 
Gira : Cab/poweramp sim is on. I have updated the firmware, reset the system parameter in "Utility" and deleted all the patches. Any other way to "reboot" the system?

Stringtheorist : I am guessing that you are on to something here.. Unfortunatly.
I was expecting it to be waaaaay better then the boss gt8 though.. Considering that the price on this thing is still ridiculous.
 
The ultra was much more difficult to reach an end result, intimate amplifier and audio knowledge was required for quick setups.

There has never been a unit with good presets. Presets are not about giving you good tones they are about showcasing the units capabilities and also routing ideas. Ironically fractal has made the first 50 presets in the 2 just that, good tones you may not need to dial.

The Axe fx 2 is plug and play if you want it to be, or as complex as you like.

You need to do some research and reading on the forum, and manual and wiki.

The 2 patches and ultra patches are not interchangeable.

"Good quality" sennheiser headset? Are they truly flat FRFR if not there's a problem, have you heard it through nice monitors or a guitar amp?

Yes ten user cabinets in the ultra, 50 in the 2 and cliff said there is more room recently, he may increase the 2 to 100. This is pretty standard when older tech obsolesces. It is a computer not a guitar amp.

Axe fx 2 tone matches do not work on ultra , unless you export the TM and an IR, and that IR is then converted to Axe Gen 1 format (where it would be loaded in a Cab Block). You'd also need the details of the amp being matched, general type and control settings etc. not sure what ones you were using but maybe this applies.

Axe edit is being rewritten. It is common knowledge it is buggy.
As far as you not liking the sounds on axe change, they were not made with your ears or gear. What makes you think you should like them?

The axe 2 did not cost twice as much, if I remember i paid $200 more than my ultra. If you're wondering why old technology is not as expensive as new tech then remember these things are computers and devalue similarly.


You keep slamming the price, maybe these units are just out of your budget. I sold $30,000 in guitar amps after getting my 2. Most good guitar heads come without effects, without direct recording capabilities, without headphone jacks, without midi , and fall into a $2000 price range. To me it was ridiculously frugal, and improved on the regular amp experience in every way.

Some of this sounds like you are applying the axe fx 2 current praise to the ultra, and although ultra was king at one time the coup was fast and violent and a new monarch arrived. If you look more closely , most of the I never need tube amps again comments are about the axe 2.

What FW version was it the final 11.0? That was the best one and the last.
 
Gira : Cab/poweramp sim is on. I have updated the firmware, reset the system parameter in "Utility" and deleted all the patches. Any other way to "reboot" the system?

I mean litterally reboot the unit: reset the system parameters, turn it off and then on. Otherwise you will be keeping the old system parameters.

I'd start simple: amp + cab, no factory preset (they were made for firmware 6 or 7 IIRC).
 
Hi moltenmetalburn. And thanks for your comments. They are sort of confirming my initial impression, and I know you are right in many ways here:

-I know factory presets normally don 't sound any good. I was just hoping that it might be easier to get the axe sounding a whole lot better, a little faster, if you know what I mean.
-If the axe 2 is more plug n play, but with great editing possibilities, well then maybe it 's what I should go for.
-I have already been reading A LOT of posts on this forum, and I will continue to do so :) I have only had this axe for a couple of days, so I was just keen to get some feedback wether I was doing something wrong. It sure is easy to get lost in the axe jungle of possibilities.
- I have not yet tried the Axe through monitors or any other amps, so I am guessing thats a whole different experience, judging by the comments from the forum regarding headphones.
- regarding the axe change; you 're right of course. I guess many of these patches have been created for use with monitors, or way different equipment. I think I 'll leave the axechange alone, and create some of my own instead.
-My budget is not the problem here. The problem is that I would expect a 1000 thousand dollar product to sound a whole lot better then a 10year old 100-dollar product. The price for an Axe2 is supercheap IF it could replace my amps and effects permanently. I have never tried the Axe2 though, but it seems like I might give it a go. I was really not interrested in replacing my amp. I was simply keen on replacing the boss gt-8 for use in my home studio. I guess that I am just a little disappointed, as I was hoping it would "blow my mind" compared to the Boss.

FW version 11.0 yes :)

Ok , back to the Axe. Thanks for comments and ideas guys. I really appreciate it, and it is helping me to understand the whole unit and it 's capabillities better.
 
I'd start simple: amp + cab, no factory preset

This.

Pick an amp and cab, tweak using basic amp "front panel" knob equivalents and your ears. I have an Axe II, and I still use my Standard frequently. The II is top dog, but the Standard is still considerably more capable than any other hardware or software modeler I've tried. It's in there.
 
Axe FX 2 is an entirely different thing. It's two generations removed from what you are using now. It's a game changer. You just have to trust the demo's are recordings you are hearing. It IS possible.
 
Hmm yeah, thats what I thought... However there are a lot of good tones in that tonematch file from Songtan13, so I think I will go on tweeking those till I am satisfied. Does anybody know btw how, and if it would be possible to tonematch my own JSX amp? I have plenty of files already recorded, using the JSX, an sm57 and a sennheiser e606 through a 4x12 custom cab with eminence wizard speakers. I like the sound of it, and it would be awesome to get something similar in the axe standard, if possible??
 
My advice: learn enough about the programming of the Standard to set up it up this way:

one row of all SHUNTS, from beginning to end (left to right). Plug your guitar in and listen to this. It should sound like the guitar itself, as if the unit is in a global BYPASS mode.

Now, to confirm that your cabinet sims are globally engaged, add a Cabinet Block somewhere in the middle of this path, replacing one of the SHUNTS. You should immediately hear a difference in the tone as the cabinet Impulse Response or IR (a digital representation of the tonal footprint of that emulated guitar cabinet) is applied in the cabinet block. If you hear no difference, check your Global Menu to make sure that Cabinet Simulations ARE ON.

Next, replace a SHUNT before the CAB block with an AMP block, preferably something complimentary to the cabinet previously chosen. You should hear the effects of the amp modeled int the Cabinet block. Go to the SAG parameter and adjust this to see if it is having any effect (especially with vintage amp models that relied on output tube distortion as part of their sound) on the "squishiness" of the distorted tone. It may or may not be subtle, depending on the level of the MASTER volume in the amp block. If you can't hear any difference, then go to Global Menu and make sure that Amp Simulations ARE ON. When the SAG paramater in the AMP block is all the way off, it will defeat the effect of the Tube Power Amp simulation (i.e. 0=off)

If everything seems to be working, the next thing you should do is start to tweak the basic parameters of the Amp block as you would any other preamp, and see if you can't get closer to what you would expect to hear from a "quality" guitar preamp. Beyond this, there are many "tricks of the trade" that users have come up with over the years, and these may take a while to grasp depending on how much you know and comprehend with respect to tube amps.

If you follow these steps and it still sounds bad, then I would eliminate your current monitoring method using the audio I/O and headphones and plug into a Full Range (FR) powered speaker of some sort (either dedicated PA/floor wedge or a good quality studio monitor). Initially, keeping things very simple is the best way to make sure all of the gear is working properly.
 
amp + cab, experiment with ir's, a lot of it's the IR.

I had some great tones out of my ultra, they can be had, just takes a little time to get 100% where you want it... and what is 100%, I dont think anyone ever gets there... it's part of tone chasing.
 
Marcus, you paid 1000USD for a journey. It took me 1 month with the Ultra to feel that I wasn't scammed. After that it took 1 year to get THERE (end of the journey). I still own both the Ultra and the AXeFX II, I switched to AxeFXII only a month ago for rehearsals and live. Well... it's different, but I am curious the audience will hear the difference. I have 10 days to the next upcoming show, it will be the first with the II. All I can say people told me they never heard such guitar tone as I have, never felt the guitar hitting their chest and kicking their butt before. They were listening until now to the Ultra... :)
 
It took me 1 month with the Ultra to feel that I wasn't scammed

It's scary to read comments like that kiss... scary on two fronts

Firstly, could the Ultra really have been so difficult to get sounding good out of the box..? I'd never touched one but knew that I'd need CAB sims on when going direct for example - two minutes was all it took!

Secondly, why would some users find it so hard to get it working for them..?
thinking.gif



I ask these questions not to criticise or to try and look clever - the complete opposite in fact - I just wonder if it really is / was that confusing and how many guys have been left with the wrong impression as a result..?
unsure.gif
 
same here ... only I am not overwhelmed after 2 years (ultra & II) ... it has a lot of possibilities and sounds OK, but only OK ... and can not replace my amps ...
 
Thanks guys.. So far, the most impressive thing about the axe has been this forum :) It 's really great to get so much help, and it is also very interresting to hear your experiences. I guess there 's a a lot of different users out there, with a lot of different demands, and needs. :)
 
I too was desperate to find the magic button. When I first turned mine on I was running it through a randall combo amp uggggggg (that was in desperation before my ev live x 112 p powered monitors arrived) YOU have to find a good clean FRFR source to play through or you will be tweaking and sounding like shit. The magic button IS the FRFR. Nope headphones and even good desktop monitors dont REALLY do it justice. 1x12 powered frfr speakers at least one, will be your first AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh moment. also tweaking some advanced amp parameters, but I do have the II.
 
I was expecting it to be waaaaay better then the boss gt8 though.. Considering that the price on this thing is still ridiculous.

I owned a GT-8 for a few years and it was a great unit (well, into a tube poweramp and 4x12 I got some great sounds... not so much going direct). But it's nowhere near as good as the first gen Axe-FX, except that it's easier to figure out straight out of the box.

That said, the same with the GT-8 and any other units really, the best place to start is to strip it right down to basics. No point diving into all the effects and crazy advanced parameters and whatnot all at once. I always just approach it like I'm working with a "real" rig. I didn't tweak my old big rack rigs by just turning all the FX units and stuff on and trying to figure it out from there. Start with the core of the sound and expand on it from there one element at a time. If a sound wasn't quite doing it for me, I didn't rush straight to throwing drives, EQs, compressors, etc. in the chain. I'd keep tweaking the main sound to get as much as I could from it before I started adding things.


Just a few hours ago I was going through the hassle of finding a new cab set up to use. I've been using a 2x12 cab for a while, and have started dialing my sounds in a bit different as the band sound has changed a bit over time. So going back to do some direct recording after a long break, my old IR mixes just aren't doing it for me. Started by just jumping into it aimlessly and basically getting nowhere. No sleep'll make anyone stupid. :lol After a bit of frustration, I got the better of my brain and started working through it more logically, and ended up with a sound that makes me kinda wonder why I lug a 2x12 around. :lol
 
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