3 Stand-in Switches PLUS Expression pedal with toe switch?

S

Seven2Eleven

Inspired
Hi everyone,
I wanted to see if something like this is possible on the FM9 via a combination of external pedal switches and midi.

Currently on my Fm9, I have the Mission Engineering expression pedal with a toe switch. The expression pedal part is in Pedal 1 and the toe switch is in pedal 2. I use this as a Volume/Wah pedal in all presets/scenes. The expression pedal controls a volume block by default but then I have the toe switch set as a control switch that simultaneously bypasses the volume and engages the wah.

In pedal 3, I have this cheap dual foot switch that I had lying around plugged in. However, I can only use 1 out of the 2 switches since I already used up the other 2 pedal jacks. I have that programmed as a universal tap tempo.

I just did my first gig last night with the Fm9 and it went great for the most part. However, I want to make some changes. In short, I want to maximize the number of foot switches I have on the Fm9 to be used as instant access switches for either scene changes or effects bypasses. I don't want to lose foot switch real estate to things "utility functions" like switching between scenes, presets and effects layouts. I basically want something like the OFM9G layout but with 12 foot switches I guess, so OFM12G?.

So my vision is to use 3 stand-in switches plugged into the pedal jacks and have them programmed to switch between presets, scenes and effects layouts. But now, I don't have any room for my expression pedal with the toe switch. I was thinking maybe I could run the expression pedal via midi? Could I plug my expression pedal into something like the disaster area MIDI Baby (https://www.disasterareadesigns.com/shop/p/midi-baby) and retain the same functionality I had before? I imagine it would always send MIDI CC messages that correspond to the expression pedal and then I could program the switch on the MIDI baby to be the control switch for my volume/wah combo.

Let me know if this would work or if there are better solutions. I could possibly get away with only 2 stand-in switches also. I would program one to toggle between presets and scenes layout and then the other one would be for effects.
 
I use a expression pedal into a Morningstar MC3 to send midi to FM9 - it allows me to map the expression to one of three separate midi CC's (depending on MC3 preset I select) - so I can use one pedal for volume (CC#6), wah (CC#7) or effect mix (CC#8). So worth checking that out.
 
blaggers said:
I use a expression pedal into a Morningstar MC3 to send midi to FM9 - it allows me to map the expression to one of three separate midi CC's (depending on MC3 preset I select) - so I can use one pedal for volume (CC#6), wah (CC#7) or effect mix (CC#8). So worth checking that out.
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That could potentially work. However, in the way I have it set up currently, the wah and volume are mutually exclusive. When one block is on, the other is off. I'd need to control the bypass states too. Does your method bypass the blocks? I'm worried that if I say use the Wah on CC#6 then switch to volume on CC#7, the wah block will still be on cocked in whatever position it last received on CC#6.
 
The MC3 can send multiple user defined CC messages with each button push, so i send CC#6 = 0 (switch off wah (heel down position)) when selecting any other MC3 preset - I could even set volume to max when engaging the wah, then back to a lower value when exiting. You need to be wary with midi CC expression messages - does the controller send them as soon as the pedal expression pedal is engaged or just when you move it? The MC3 is very customisable in how it functions, some other Midi pedals arent.

I could even use teh MC3 to send both CC6 and CC7 when the expression pedal is moved in any preset, and use MC3 switched mapped to midi to switch the wah or volume blocks on/off or switch channel numbers similar to the way you currently do it.
 
blaggers said:
The MC3 can send multiple user defined CC messages with each button push, so i send CC#6 = 0 (switch off wah (heel down position)) when selecting any other MC3 preset - I could even set volume to max when engaging the wah, then back to a lower value when exiting. You need to be wary with midi CC expression messages - does the controller send them as soon as the pedal expression pedal is engaged or just when you move it? The MC3 is very customisable in how it functions, some other Midi pedals arent.

I could even use teh MC3 to send both CC6 and CC7 when the expression pedal is moved in any preset, and use MC3 switched mapped to midi to switch the wah or volume blocks on/off or switch channel numbers similar to the way you currently do it.
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Ok that's all good info. Do you know anything about the disaster area stuff? I want to get something cheap and small. The Morningstar stuff I know is good but it might be overkill for what I need
 
Ive not used any Disaster Area stuff for at least 5 years - they used to be very limited (PC changes only) but look to have better functionality now.
 
I highly recommend the AudioFront Expression IO for this.

I use one with my FM9.

I have 3 external switches connected to the pedal jacks and configured as stand-in switches.

I then have 4 expression pedals connected via midi through the Expression IO.

You can use each of the 4 jacks on the Expression IO for either a single expression pedal or a single or dual switch.

Midi switches can't be configured as stand-in switches, which is why I recommend using the pedal jacks for those.

They are also pretty versatile units and have the ability to configure response curves (not really needed with Fractal stuff), manipulate midi, etc. Small, lightweight and not too expensive.
 
unix-guy said:
I highly recommend the AudioFront Expression IO for this.

I use one with my FM9.

I have 3 external switches connected to the pedal jacks and configured as stand-in switches.

I then have 4 expression pedals connected via midi through the Expression IO.

You can use each of the 4 jacks on the Expression IO for either a single expression pedal or a single or dual switch.

Midi switches can't be configured as stand-in switches, which is why I recommend using the pedal jacks for those.

They are also pretty versatile units and have the ability to configure response curves (not really needed with Fractal stuff), manipulate midi, etc. Small, lightweight and not too expensive.
Click to expand...
That seems like a cool solution but I definitely want to stick to one expression pedal. I'm coming from a large pedalboard with 3 expression pedals and I'm trying to downsize.

I think it's strange that midi can't be used for stand-in switches. That would make like a lot easier.
 
Seven2Eleven said:
That seems like a cool solution but I definitely want to stick to one expression pedal. I'm coming from a large pedalboard with 3 expression pedals and I'm trying to downsize.

I think it's strange that midi can't be used for stand-in switches. That would make like a lot easier.
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Don't forget that you need not only a jack for your expression pedal but also the expression pedal switch ;)

You can't use midi for stand-in switches because they require a physical circuit to manage both Tap and Hold functions. You can't do that with midi.

The Expression IO supports "Dual CC" which basically the same concept: control one thing with a tap and another with a Hold. I haven't used it but it gets you a similar dual function capability if needed
 
unix-guy said:
You can't use midi for stand-in switches because they require a physical circuit to manage both Tap and Hold functions. You can't do that with midi.
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A MIDI switch would just have to send momentary-style CC values (press = 127, release = 0) to let the Axe-FX determine tap vs. hold.
 
Bakerman said:
A MIDI switch would just have to send momentary-style CC values (press = 127, release = 0) to let the Axe-FX determine tap vs. hold.
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Good point.

Have you encountered any specific midi controllers that can do this on switches? I have not, but I suppose you could connect a switch to an expression pedal jack on the controller to do that.

In any case, the Axe Fx would need to get updated to support that...
 
unix-guy said:
I highly recommend the AudioFront Expression IO for this.

I use one with my FM9.

I have 3 external switches connected to the pedal jacks and configured as stand-in switches.

I then have 4 expression pedals connected via midi through the Expression IO.

You can use each of the 4 jacks on the Expression IO for either a single expression pedal or a single or dual switch.

Midi switches can't be configured as stand-in switches, which is why I recommend using the pedal jacks for those.

They are also pretty versatile units and have the ability to configure response curves (not really needed with Fractal stuff), manipulate midi, etc. Small, lightweight and not too expensive.
Click to expand...
+1

Rock solid bit of kit, they are....

I have two of them....
20230706_222636.jpg
 
unix-guy said:
They are also pretty versatile units and have the ability to configure response curves (not really needed with Fractal stuff), manipulate midi, etc. Small, lightweight and not too exexpensive.
Click to expand...

i find that it is handy to put a very gentle S curve in the response - just enough to slow/widen the pedal response across the middle a smidgen. Two of my controllers have this S curve, two are straight lines....
 
unix-guy said:
Good point.

Have you encountered any specific midi controllers that can do this on switches? I have not, but I suppose you could connect a switch to an expression pedal jack on the controller to do that.

In any case, the Axe Fx would need to get updated to support that...
Click to expand...
Expression IO does it as SOP. I had to alter the switch setup for my tap tempo switch to only send 127 on press and not also 0 on release. :)
 
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