3.02 Im over the HUmp and doin great!

symphx

symphx

Fractal Fanatic
Ive barely touched the 3.02 presets etc. because I am really now liking my sounds. Ive finally got over the initial shock of changed sounds and reworking some presets. It is not fun but starting from scratch does help. It also seems true less and less modifiers, peq, geq filters are needed which is a GREAT thing. There are already a ton of eq high cut low cut speaker eq etc. parameters just in the amp block alone!

To all others out there, you might as well make the leap to 3.02 and stay on this moving train!
 
I agree. I made a lot of progress this weekend by starting from scratch and forgetting everything i thought i knew about the Axe FX.
 
I followed Scott's little how-to for 3.0 and am back off the ledge. Actually I wasn't that scared, but what I found was that doing Scott's little tweaks, putting all my eq to 5 and starting gain structure from scratch had me good to go. Very little eq needed. Bright switches that had been on are off now for most part. It's sounding great again (I loved 2). I was one of the early adopters that said "Sure I'll update right before a gig (which I'd done before successfully)." It went ok, but my sound wasn't as good as 2c before doing some of the tweaking as suggested by Scott. Now I'm at least back to where I was and probably ahead on the gainier patches.
 
Axe_maniac said:
I agree. I made a lot of progress this weekend by starting from scratch and forgetting everything i thought i knew about the Axe FX.
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How many more times are we going to have to do this? Anyone else growing tired of starting from scratch and forgetting everything I know?
 
Couldn't agree more. It seems odd to update firmware to get.. guess what, updated software and then complain about how your software is different. If you are happy, then put the extra time and energy into playing and enjoying what a great and flexible device you have

Scott Peterson said:
Then leave your firmware where it is and just play your guitar.
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you do not have to update your firmware. REPEAT: You do not have to update your firmware.

"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,"Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were." - mitch hedberg
 
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rhequiem said:
Couldn't agree more. It seems odd to update firmware to get.. guess what, updated software and then complain about how your software is different. If you are happy, then put the extra time and energy into playing and enjoying what a great and flexible device you have
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I think that view is a little harsh. It's safe to assume that most existing users are happy with their tone (otherwise they would have moved to other gear). When new firmware comes out that changes the sound of existing presets, some users will like it, but it's also clear that some users who already had what they wanted tone-wise are going to endure some frustration trying to get it back. Why don't these users just forego the upgrade as you suggest? Because the firmware has desirable new features... like IR capture, new amp models, bug fixes, etc.

It would be nice for existing users if changes to the modelling were such that they could be used, or not (for example, as new advanced parameters that when defaulted would yield the existing algorithm). That way, users could choose. I'm sure given the nature of the changes that were decided, that it wasn't possible to do this, which is fine. However, in that case it should be understandable that some users are going to experience and express some angst, at least during the transition.
 
jmpatrick63 said:
How many more times are we going to have to do this? Anyone else growing tired of starting from scratch and forgetting everything I know?
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I got a great idea... How about cliff stop development altogether and stop making this shit better.

Oh wait... that would be stupid.
 
chrisallen8888 said:
you do not have to update your firmware. REPEAT: You do not have to update your firmware.

"I saw a commercial on late night TV, it said,"Forget everything you know about slipcovers." So I did. And it was a load off my mind. Then the commercial tried to sell me slipcovers, and I didn't know what the hell they were." - mitch hedberg
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slip covers, ?! did you say slip covers?! where , when, is there a slipcover update 3.02, must have it.!!!!!!! (digress as usual)
 
Since I went to 3.02 the cleans sound amazing and the heavier sounds do have more presence. The low end chugging and pinched harmonics sound amazing. If I was a greedy b@stard I'd love a slap bass amp tone like Mark King ( as linked the in Axe II bass threads ) but as a 6 string lead player the range of stock presets alone are gorgeous. So many tones to play with now when recording it's really hard to know where to start ! The " Cavernous " preset am absolutely loving. The clarity of this tone with the reverb and delay keeps me noodling happily for hours.
Many thanks Cliff !
 
LostInSpace said:
I think that view is a little harsh. It's safe to assume that most existing users are happy with their tone (otherwise they would have moved to other gear). When new firmware comes out that changes the sound of existing presets, some users will like it, but it's also clear that some users who already had what they wanted tone-wise are going to endure some frustration trying to get it back. Why don't these users just forego the upgrade as you suggest? Because the firmware has desirable new features... like IR capture, new amp models, bug fixes, etc.

It would be nice for existing users if changes to the modelling were such that they could be used, or not (for example, as new advanced parameters that when defaulted would yield the existing algorithm). That way, users could choose. I'm sure given the nature of the changes that were decided, that it wasn't possible to do this, which is fine. However, in that case it should be understandable that some users are going to experience and express some angst, at least during the transition.
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Then you are misunderstanding the breadth of what this firmware brought. He completely redid the power amp modeling and more. That's entirely a new algorithm driving the machine and a very integral part of it. He completely re-sampled and redid the RW IR's and added the MONEY control parameter - the proximity control.

There is no way you can just 'turn that off'; you are misunderstanding what he actually did here.

If you try it and don't like it, then stay with what you like and know.

The Axe-FX and Fractal has never - ever - been one to rest on his laurels. He probably never will. Name another guitar processor that had 11 Major Firmware Upgrades and a FIVE year lifespan as the state-of-the-art modeling and effect signal processor. If you think that the Gen2 with the added horsepower - 16X the memory and 2X the processing power - would not follow the same curve... you got on the wrong roller coaster. :D Gen 2 is already on Major release version 3 of it's firmware and we are not even a year into it's existence.

You see posts like yours and the 'I like this old firmware best!' posts and threads throughout the history of these products. There's nothing wrong with that attitude; then keep your older firmware and just play your guitar.

But you cannot realistically expect to somehow make presets backwards compatible if you want to stay current on the upgrade path. Just how things are. Not going to change by either historical or current policies of Fractal.

To each their own; and there's no shame in liking an older firmware; but at least be realistic - there is no way to improve the engine but keep the driving experience the same.

This is cutting edge, at the front of the curve, boutique level gear. That comes with responsibility on the user to understand that development will not cease; and if you want it to cease... then just cease loading in new firmwares. There's nothing else to it. If you want to shoot some IR's; then load in 3.xx and shoot the IR, then downgrade it back to 2.xx or whatever you prefer. You can still use the IR.
 
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Scott Peterson said:
Name another guitar processor that had 11 Major Firmware Upgrades and a FIVE year lifespan as the state-of-the-art modeling and effect signal processor.
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the unfortunate thing is many see this as a flaw... why did it need 11 upgrades? was it not perfect the first time out? why v3 already in its young existence? well i think that view is dumb.

i used another great processor before the axe and there was a major bug in its compressor or something, and it took them almost 2 years to get a .0X update that finally fixed it.

fractal audio is one of the few companies that is continually working on its products making it better and better. i think its "customer suggestion to product implementation rate" is one of the highest i've seen for any product anywhere in any market. if they figure something out, they give it to us - for free. i'm amazed at the generosity of this company and the value and quality of its gear. i still think that it's my best music-related purchase in my entire life.

yes, 3 and 3.xx will change your sounds. if it sounded good before and you're in the middle of a project, don't upgrade yet. "but i want the latest IR capabilities." why do you need that? your sound would change if you used it because it's a different cab now.... :p but everyone knows that ultimately you will sound even better with the latest firmware. there's no way fractal would release an update that makes it sound worse.

but then again, the problem is sound and tone is subjective. we are fortunate to have a select few test the latest updates before they hit the public, and there is a lot of knowledge and experience in that group. i can't believe they'd all approve a firmware that degrades the quality of what the axe can offer. trust your ears, not the knobs and don't be afraid to turn them to different places than you're used to.
 
Scott Peterson said:
Then you are misunderstanding the breadth of what this firmware brought. He completely redid the power amp modeling and more. That's entirely a new algorithm driving the machine and a very integral part of it. He completely re-sampled and redid the RW IR's and added the MONEY control parameter - the proximity control.

There is no way you can just 'turn that off'; you are misunderstanding what he actually did here.
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Scott, with all due respect, I think you missed my point (maybe I could have been clearer). Here's what I wrote (note bolded part):
LostInSpace said:
It would be nice for existing users if changes to the modelling were such that they could be used, or not (for example, as new advanced parameters that when defaulted would yield the existing algorithm). That way, users could choose. I'm sure given the nature of the changes that were decided, that it wasn't possible to do this, which is fine. However, in that case it should be understandable that some users are going to experience and express some angst...
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The firmware will evolve, in whatever manner Cliff decides, it's his prerogative, and I'm sure he intends to keep the Axe a cutting edge product. My point was that when Cliff decides to overhaul in a non-backward compatible way, there will be some user frustration, and some of the comments earlier in this thread struck me as unnecessarily harsh.

In general, while I understand that Cliff has no obligation to support backward compatibility during firmware updates, IMHO this is a factor that deserves consideration when firmware upgrades are developed. Would Microsoft release a version of Word that required everyone to rewrite their old documents? Most software evolves by extending functionality, not wholesale replacing of it. I didn't own a gen1 unit, but if I had to redevelop my presets 11 times in 5 years, I'm pretty sure I'd be off the bandwagon. Just sayin'.

(p.s. can't believe I compared FAS to Microsoft. Sorry, Cliff... just making a point :) ).
 
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I can see your points, LiS, but I think I'm of a mind where, if you're going to play with a piece of gear that is basically in constant active development, and you are going to voluntarily be part of that via firmware upgrades - then it's reasonable for you to expect to have to adapt and roll with those changes. I can understand getting frustrated when your sounds change in a way that you think is negative, but I personally wouldn't put myself in that cycle if I found myself being continually frustrated by that cycle that I put myself in. I'd just get a Standard/Ultra and wait for the II to reach its maturity and then jump in then, when things are more static.

I wasn't [edit] trying to be harsh to the post I replied to. It's simply that the logic doesn't make sense to me.
 
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Let's say you buy a new unit and the FW updates are now up to version 7.1. Would you like the default settings to be "Most authentic sound with the current firmware" or "Settings that make the current firmware sound like firmware 2.0"? I do understand the patch reworking effort needed, but still don't think the defaults should be changed like suggested.
 
LostInSpace said:
Scott, with all due respect, I think you missed my point (maybe I could have been clearer). Here's what I wrote (note bolded part):
The firmware will evolve, in whatever manner Cliff decides, it's his prerogative, and I'm sure he intends to keep the Axe a cutting edge product. My point was that when Cliff decides to overhaul in a non-backward compatible way, there will be some user frustration, and some of the comments earlier in this thread struck me as unnecessarily harsh.

In general, while I understand that Cliff has no obligation to support backward compatibility during firmware updates, IMHO this is a factor that deserves consideration when firmware upgrades are developed. Would Microsoft release a version of Word that required everyone to rewrite their old documents? Most software evolves by extending functionality, not wholesale replacing of it. I didn't own a gen1 unit, but if I had to redevelop my presets 11 times in 5 years, I'm pretty sure I'd be off the bandwagon. Just sayin'.

(p.s. can't believe I compared FAS to Microsoft. Sorry, Cliff... just making a point :) ).
Click to expand...

Analogies are cool and all, but they do have their limit... The whole point of the Axe Fx is tone. I don't believe there is a way to extend tonal functionality without affecting tone. You really can't compare two completely different industries and expect that they should function similarly. It doesn't work.

I think the point of the "harsh" comments is absolutely justified (and I don't think they were harsh comments). I mean seriously, who complains about an upgrade they have full control over installing or not? And what good is an upgrade that doesn't change anything? "Check it out! New, more realistic power amp modeling! ... But don't worry, you won't have to change your presets because it sounds exactly the same!!" Oooh... That sounds exciting. -_-

I WANT my upgrades to sound different. Sure, it might be inconvenient, but I value the benefits of an upgrade far more than convenience. Think about it: it's inconvenient to make a sandwich, but it sure does taste good to eat it. If you want the sandwich, you're gonna' have to bust out the peanut butter (... look who's making the weak analogies now ;)).

I don't like the idea of backwards compatibility. Adding features just to go backwards doesn't sound like a good business model to me, and I'd rather learn the new system flat-out than have to hobble around on an outdated crutch.
 
LostInSpace said:
(p.s. can't believe I compared FAS to Microsoft. Sorry, Cliff... just making a point :) ).
Click to expand...

I can't believe you did that either. :) I believe that MS often does upgrades just to drive the masses to buy and upgrade so they can read new doc versions that get distributed. I can't think of many reasons that the average user really needs to upgrade Word for new functionality.

At least Axe-FX firmware upgrades do have a user benefit. I have been through all of the upgrades since I got my Standard, Ultra and now AFII. I say keep them coming as long as it improves the tone and functionality. If I don't like it, I can just stick with the version I like, much like I had to do in the tube days.
 
I don't get the complaining.

Imagine... Cliff can just stop the upgrades completely and not have to put up with all this. Then make you guys pay for Axe Fx III with 3.02 features. He could.

Now just take your time to learn the new parameters is really better off than to wait for the new improvements and god knows how many years for the next gen Axe Fx. Really.
 
All,

I was one of the folks scared of 3.0.
It took me a while to dial in my tones in the beginning, but I finally took the plunge a few days ago with 3.02.
Here's my observations:
  • Much of the perceived difficulty setting up tones came from my unfamiliarity with it. This second time around, it took me 1 (one) hour to get set up, as opposed to 3 days the first time. If you know which menu is where and which button does what, it's all a little quicker.
  • I didn't try to emulate my existing amp this time and didn't try to second-guess the Axe. Just took some models I knew would work and used Yek's and Scott's recommendations: AMP, CAB, stay away from the advanced tabs, and add effects to taste.
    This time I have no EQ and no advanced parameters set at all. Plus, I already knew which CAB I liked. Easy.
  • Proximity in CAB I kept down (less bass), and I added a low cut even on some cabs, helps with output clipping on clean tones.
  • I had a bunch of global blocks going on the first time, but since they don't save modifiers with them (I'd like to have one ready-to-go, drop-in Wah for example), I didn't use any this time around.
  • What's gone now is a little sterile artificial-ness with very soft note tails ringing out and such. It's alive now!
  • The only gripe I have is with the Jazz Chorus model, since I can't get it to work nicely. Needs more realistic controls, since it's not a tube amp....
  • If somebody can point me into the right direction to add envelope following to the attack on my Cello patches, I'd be grateful...:eek:ops
So, I actually wanted to apologize for spreading FUD a while ago, I'm all good now.8)
Just try it yourselves.

Cheers,

Benji
 
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