250$ for Metallica Black Album Preset

MrBurns666 said:
Okay guys !
This is gonna be my last post on this threat , probably because my "Big Master Plan" have just been unmasked and i must have collected enough "free stuff" to lunch my personal "Black Album Preset Pack"...
I'm too old for this Internet Forum Drama
My offer is still valid , peoples who think they have the preset i'm looking for , use the DI track that i've provide with your preset and PM me a wav. recording of that preset , don't send me the actual preset, that way , i won't be able to collect "more free stuff" and that might help some peoples sleep better at night...
Pm me directly for question cause i'm no longer posting on this thread.
Thanks !!
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Hey man I’ll buy the preset pack. But really it had better SMELL like Metallica and not old man today Metallica. Piss and booze kill ‘em all Metallica. I’m all in.
 
GreatGreen said:
The entire stipulation of "without tone matching" when asking for "the exact specific tone from [whatever]" is a bit arbitrary and absurd.

60%-70% of a guitar tone, especially high gain tone, is developed after the amp, from the impedance curve interaction between the amp and cab to the overall EQ filtering of the speakers, to the mic, mic placement, and mixing.

Metallica and Bob Rock spent more time devoted to specifically and only creating the Black Album tone than any other tone Metallica ever put to tape before or since. They literally built a structure around the cabs inside the recording studio out of scaffolding and moving blankets, and used multiple mics specifically positioned at millimeter precise placements within that space so they could use the phasing of the interaction between mics to impart its own effects onto the tone, in addition to just the effect on the tone the specific mics used would have by themselves.

You could literally sit the exact Mesa Mark amp that James used in front of you and have James and Bob themselves dial it in for you while you played it, but without that homebrew cab and mic setup they built out and used, you're going to have a tough time getting that exact tone. Think about how many Metallica records that specific Mark amp has been featured in and how vastly different each of those records sound.

Tone Matching was literally created for this exact reason. That is precisely what Tone Matching does. It bridges the gap between your own cab setup and the literally-impossible-to-achieve-otherwise differences of any other cab and mic setups.

You may as well require that the preset not use any Mesa amp models or cab IR's with Vintage 30's while you're at it.
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Honestly that’s terrible advice. Especially that last paragraph..... just imagine if someone requested a preset pre tone match block “no it can’t be done because tone matching hasn’t been invented yet”.

I understand completely why the user doesn’t want a TM. This is why it’s better to find people who use their ears and have the skills to dial in sounds rather than cookie cut. He probably doesn’t want a bunch of strange artifacts added that make your cats run out the room when you start playing either but a natural tone.

Not saying TM isn’t a useful tool... it’s a fantastic one for piezo electric guitars for example.

The guy that did the demanufacture preset and the guy that did the UYI preset were dead on .... good amp and cab selection ...the demanufacture used something like 3 or 5 eqs iirc!! But it sounded natural.

The other thing is there is a reason people like Slash or Dino use the same specific amps.... when you see online someone saying how to sound like Slash “just use a LP and a Marshall” why did Slash try to steal that original Marshall? And why did he buy the second rental head? Why does he use a very specific Gibson les Paul copy for recording if all you need to do to sound like Slash is “plug into a les Paul and Marshall” yet slash doesn’t even do that himself recording!
 
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Bruce Sokolovic said:
Hey man I’ll buy the preset pack. But really it had better SMELL like Metallica and not old man today Metallica. Piss and booze kill ‘em all Metallica. I’m all in.
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I miss the back album booklet flexing photos where they pretended to be pissed off at the world but backstage weren’t any different to any 80’s band (just with less women)
 
axl-fx said:
I miss the back album booklet flexing photos where they pretended to be pissed off at the world but backstage weren’t any different to any 80’s band (just with less women)
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maybe, but make no mistakes, the chicks that were there swung from the freggin chandeliers. Not my speed in the least lol. I like my blood IN my veins..........
 
axl-fx said:
Honestly that’s terrible advice. Especially that last paragraph..... just imagine if someone requested a preset pre tone match block “no it can’t be done because tone matching hasn’t been invented yet”.

I understand completely why the user doesn’t want a TM. This is why it’s better to find people who use their ears and have the skills to dial in sounds rather than cookie cut. He probably doesn’t want a bunch of strange artifacts added that make your cats run out the room when you start playing either but a natural tone.

Not saying TM isn’t a useful tool... it’s a fantastic one for piezo electric guitars for example.

The guy that did the demanufacture preset and the guy that did the UYI preset were dead on .... good amp and cab selection ...the demanufacture used something like 3 or 5 eqs iirc!! But it sounded natural.

The other thing is there is a reason people like Slash or Dino use the same specific amps.... when you see online someone saying how to sound like Slash “just use a LP and a Marshall” why did Slash try to steal that original Marshall? And why did he buy the second rental head? Why does he use a very specific Gibson les Paul copy for recording if all you need to do to sound like Slash is “plug into a les Paul and Marshall” yet slash doesn’t even do that himself recording!
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Slash and everyone else play what they play because it inspires THEM. Truth is AFD would have sounded next to no different had they have dialed in a DSL with just about any humbucking guitar, tonewise anyway. His performance wouldnt have been the same, granted but "slash tone" would have been there just the same. Take that sound in an uninspiring mediocre song and no one would have cared. Write AFD, all of a sudden the world wants that sound thats existed for decades already. Those songs with that production is the magic. Not to mention GnR were one of those bands that sold a culture, not just music. No one wants to BE Chic Corea. Most of us air guitared to an AFD song. We wanted to BE slash living in a roach infested apartment drunk on a pint of JD. Come on, I couldnt have been the only one now.
 
axl-fx said:
Honestly that’s terrible advice.
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There's a lot of points here so I'll try to address as many of them as I can.


Honestly that’s terrible advice. Especially that last paragraph..... just imagine if someone requested a preset pre tone match block “no it can’t be done because tone matching hasn’t been invented yet”.
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This point is irrelevant because tone match has been invented. So why arbitrarily restrict yourself from using it now that it's there and you can?


I understand completely why the user doesn’t want a TM. This is why it’s better to find people who use their ears and have the skills to dial in sounds rather than cookie cut. He probably doesn’t want a bunch of strange artifacts added that make your cats run out the room when you start playing either but a natural tone.
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You're implying that tone matching inherently introduces "a bunch of strange artifacts" to the sound. That's incorrect, so your base assumption doesn't really stand up. If you're competent at using the TM block, it won't produce any strange sounding artifacts.


The guy that did the demanufacture preset and the guy that did the UYI preset were dead on .... good amp and cab selection ...the demanufacture used something like 3 or 5 eqs iirc!! But it sounded natural.
Click to expand...
Tone Match is literally an EQ. There is no functional difference between stringing a bunch of EQ's together and manually dialing each band vs applying a tone match profile that applies the exact same changes as those EQ's.


The other thing is there is a reason people like Slash or Dino use the same specific amps.... when you see online someone saying how to sound like Slash “just use a LP and a Marshall” why did Slash try to steal that original Marshall? And why did he buy the second rental head? Why does he use a very specific Gibson les Paul copy for recording if all you need to do to sound like Slash is “plug into a les Paul and Marshall” yet slash doesn’t even do that himself recording!
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This point agrees exactly with what I'm saying. If you want a patch to sound "exactly like" some recording, you're going to have the best luck by recreating each component as accurately as possible. Use a model as close to the real amp in question as you can. If you're using the Axe-Fx and you want to recreate the Black Album, that means you'll want a Mesa Mark amp. Bob Rock reported that the Black Album was primarily a Mark III. The Axe-Fx doesn't have a Mark III model so you'll want to go with one of the other Mark models, the IIC+, Triaxis Lead 2 Red mode (supposedly based on the Mark III), or Mark IV. For the cabs though... there's basically no chance you're going to find anything in the Axe-Fx or any IR pack out there that exactly emulates the specific cab and mic setup used to record the Black Album...

...which means...

...out of all the solutions available, dialing in a patch to be a close as possible to the Black Album and then Tone Matching it against the real deal to close the gap is going to be the best, most reliable way to get a patch that sounds as close to the actual Black Album as humanly possible. Why fight it? Because the only real reason I can see for doing that is some nonsense "honor code" in your head that considers tone matching to be "cheating" or something.

I suppose there is always the option of literally going to a studio and trying to recreate the Black Album guitar cab setup and shooting your own IR to import into the Axe-Fx, but I'm assuming that most people here are relatively sane and aren't considering something like that.
 
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GreatGreen said:
I suppose there is always the option of literally going to a studio and trying to recreate the Black Album guitar cab setup and shooting your own IR to import into the Axe-Fx, but I'm assuming that most people here are relatively sane and aren't considering something like that.
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It would never work. Even if you were in the same studio with the same mics and cabs, 1/4” off and the sound is entirely different. Not to mention the final sound we hear on the record is likely further processed, you’d need to somehow factor those EQ and whatever else is in what we’re hearing. I’d be surprised if Bob Rock himself can get it EXACTLY the same again.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
It would never work. Even if you were in the same studio with the same mics and cabs, 1/4” off and the sound is entirely different. Not to mention the final sound we hear on the record is likely further processed, you’d need to somehow factor those EQ and whatever else is in what we’re hearing. I’d be surprised if Bob Rock himself can get it EXACTLY the same again.
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Bingo.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Slash and everyone else play what they play because it inspires THEM. Truth is AFD would have sounded next to no different had they have dialed in a DSL with just about any humbucking guitar, tonewise anyway. His performance wouldnt have been the same, granted but "slash tone" would have been there just the same. Take that sound in an uninspiring mediocre song and no one would have cared. Write AFD, all of a sudden the world wants that sound thats existed for decades already. Those songs with that production is the magic. Not to mention GnR were one of those bands that sold a culture, not just music. No one wants to BE Chic Corea. Most of us air guitared to an AFD song. We wanted to BE slash living in a roach infested apartment drunk on a pint of JD. Come on, I couldnt have been the only one now.
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This reply implies you don’t know much about the history of recording those albums, the initial trouble slash had getting a good guitar sound (his words the AFD LP was like “a gift from god”) trying to steal the rental amp etc etc . Then on UYI he used a different Marshall which surprise surprise sounded much different from AFD .... if those iconic sounds could have just been a DSL then he sure did waste a lot of time.
 
“
Appetite producer Clink recalled that when Slash first started playing it, "We knew instantly that was the tone for the record. It wasn't, 'Oh, let me think about it.' It was, we finally had found the sound for Slash." Still, the guitarist retired the guitar (said to be made from the wood of a New Hampshire barn) from the road just two years later, in 1989.
In a previous interview, Slash recalled, "When I was in the studio doing the basic tracks for Appetite, Alan Niven brought this Les Paul for me to use because I was having a really hard time getting a good sound. I was getting a little frantic at that point, because we weren't on the kind of budget where we could wait around forever. It became my main guitar for a really long time, and because I couldn't afford a whole handful of that sort of thing, I took it out on the road for all of Guns' early touring. In fact, I almost lost it during an early tour. It was stolen from me once in the crowd... But our security guys went out and caught the guy before he left the building. I don't take that guitar on the road anymore. It's beat to shit, but it still sounds great!"
 
GreatGreen said:
There's a lot of points here so I'll try to address as many of them as I can.



This point is irrelevant because tone match has been invented. So why arbitrarily restrict yourself from using it now that it's there and you can?



You're implying that tone matching inherently introduces "a bunch of strange artifacts" to the sound. That's incorrect, so your base assumption doesn't really stand up. If you're competent at using the TM block, it won't produce any strange sounding artifacts.



Tone Match is literally an EQ. There is no functional difference between stringing a bunch of EQ's together and manually dialing each band vs applying a tone match profile that applies the exact same changes as those EQ's.



This point agrees exactly with what I'm saying. If you want a patch to sound "exactly like" some recording, you're going to have the best luck by recreating each component as accurately as possible. Use a model as close to the real amp in question as you can. If you're using the Axe-Fx and you want to recreate the Black Album, that means you'll want a Mesa Mark amp. Bob Rock reported that the Black Album was primarily a Mark III. The Axe-Fx doesn't have a Mark III model so you'll want to go with one of the other Mark models, the IIC+, Triaxis Lead 2 Red mode (supposedly based on the Mark III), or Mark IV. For the cabs though... there's basically no chance you're going to find anything in the Axe-Fx or any IR pack out there that exactly emulates the specific cab and mic setup used to record the Black Album...

...which means...

...out of all the solutions available, dialing in a patch to be a close as possible to the Black Album and then Tone Matching it against the real deal to close the gap is going to be the best, most reliable way to get a patch that sounds as close to the actual Black Album as humanly possible. Why fight it? Because the only real reason I can see for doing that is some nonsense "honor code" in your head that considers tone matching to be "cheating" or something.

I suppose there is always the option of literally going to a studio and trying to recreate the Black Album guitar cab setup and shooting your own IR to import into the Axe-Fx, but I'm assuming that most people here are relatively sane and aren't considering something like that.
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Even the amp what was used is up for debate. https://www.guitarworld.com/features/metallica-black-album-1991-interview

I guess this guy is crazy lol


Like I said much earlier these threads always bring the worst
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
No one wants to BE Chic Corea. Most of us air guitared to an AFD song. We wanted to BE slash living in a roach infested apartment drunk on a pint of JD
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I only wanted that guitar because it looks cool. These days I'm not into sunburst anymore and prefer more regular shapes like strats and sg :)
 
axl-fx said:
This reply implies you don’t know much about the history of recording those albums, the initial trouble slash had getting a good guitar sound (his words the AFD LP was like “a gift from god”) trying to steal the rental amp etc etc . Then on UYI he used a different Marshall which surprise surprise sounded much different from AFD .... if those iconic sounds could have just been a DSL then he sure did waste a lot of time.
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Im going to rely on my 3 decades of trial and error, experience and findings on this issue to form my opinion. You’re free to form yours how you like.
 
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