10 YEARS OF FRACTAL AUDIO

L

larbear63

Inspired
Congratulations Cliff.


3/19/2005

THE LINE 6 USER GROUP DISCUSSION FORUM
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All Things Vetta...
Wow...a homemade modeler/FX processor New Topic Topic Locked
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LEX
Member-At-Large

USA
447 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2005 : 22:53:28 Show Profile Email Poster
I was browsing the Harmony Central discussion boards and stumbled upon this. The thread is at
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=886263



This guy Cliff, built it from scratch, did all the DSP coding.
There are some sound clips, the tones are for from crappy!
He says he's been working on it for 3 years, has already sunk 30-40K into the project.

Some people just impress the hell out of me.

Sorry about the huge pic size, I don't know how to re-size. Andy, is there a way?


LEX
(Uh....when's downbeat?)
Edited by - LEX on 03/19/2005 23:01:08
AZ
Member with too much time available

USA
5377 Posts

Posted - 03/19/2005 : 23:07:42 Show Profile Email Poster
Wow! Since the pic is on his site, it's as big as it is. Some here on dial up will take a few seconds to download it.
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Greg V
Giant Member

Japan
1541 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2005 : 06:35:25 Show Profile Email Poster Visit Greg V's Homepage
Yeah, some people are just "like that".

I have a few friends that will purchase a new product, and the first thing they do with it is take it apart to see how it works!!
I don't have the patience for that kinda stuff.

But I'm sure glad that some people do!! If the world were populated by clones of ME, we'd still be trying to perfect the wheel!

><><><><><><><><><>
The V stands for "Virgo"
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DrDipwad
Large Member

938 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2005 : 18:15:21 Show Profile
Yeesh.

I have the patience. I just don't have the skill or knowledge!

I wish I could learn how to do this. Maybe I should contact the guy and ask whether he provides internships. Without Clintonesque cigar-related "other duties as assigned", I mean.

-- Dr.Dipwad
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oyster
Giant Member

Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
1764 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2005 : 10:02:34 Show Profile Visit oyster's Homepage
cool!
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Dutch
Giant Member

Netherlands
2051 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2005 : 04:31:31 Show Profile Email Poster
WOW.
Line6 should snap this guy up.

b.

-----ooooOOOOoooo-----
Whatever you do, don't miss it!!
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Dutch
Giant Member

Netherlands
2051 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2005 : 06:24:52 Show Profile Email Poster
I've been perousing the manual, this thing is brilliant. If this delivers the sound
it's the next step. I have only heard the clips on an notebook so I can't judge.
Stick this in a footpedal, pair it with a fullrange speaker, feed the board and you
might never need anything else.

I would prefer a couple of (unlimited) encoder tone knobs underneath the screen
to the datawheel, and a bit more info on the screens (like Vetta), but that would
be it.

Line6, another challenger!

-----ooooOOOOoooo-----
Whatever you do, don't miss it!!
Edited by - Dutch on 03/25/2005 08:22:54
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natefromprod
Large Member

USA
502 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2005 : 07:03:24 Show Profile Email Poster Visit natefromprod's Homepage
I don't think all the tones are that great. Sounds like what happens when you mike your cab with a crappy mic or in a bad position, almost like phase cancellation or something. Not all of them are like that, but, so far, I'm not super impressed with the tones. The manual and what he is trying to do, however, is phenomenal. But, I like the Line 6 tones I've heard way better. Maybe it's the style of music, who knows...

Nate Wright
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ESP/LTD Vipers with EMG 85's>VHT Valvulator>HD 147> Mesa Recto oversized 4x12 (left)>Line 6 Vetta 4x12 (right)
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DrDipwad
Large Member

938 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2005 : 09:37:59 Show Profile
Nate:

That's odd. I thought the tones sounded pretty good.

I'd say that Armin is one of the Cab-Modeling-Meisters
of this forum. Hopefully he'll pop in here and volunteer
an opinion. Got an opinion yet, Armin?

I will say this: If the tones are as good as Vetta's,
or better, then I will sell my Vetta and use an AxeFX
instead.

After all, it already has features we've been
clamoring for constantly for...what, 3 years?

- Rack Mounted
- Multiple parameters controllable by one
expression pedal
- All, or nearly all, parameters accessible
- Wah with editable Q, sweep, et cetera
- Higher-quality verbs and echoes, on the
level of TCElectronic, Lexicon, et cetera
- More than one PostFX of each type
- Intelligent Harmony
- Whammy
- Global Tempo with MIDI Time-Synch option
- Higher-quality compressor
- More of the distortion stompboxes from the
DM4 than Vetta has
- More flexability in routing, both Pre- and Post-
- FX Loop anywhere in the chain, including
between two stompboxes in the Pre- part
of the chain
- A compare button
- Completely flexable MIDI implementation

Is it just me, or does that read like a summary of the Vetta Wish List?

Not that Vetta's bad. It's great. It's been a pleasure to
use for the last couple of years. But if one guy can
build a box on his own nickel which (assuming the tones are
good) does everything Vetta does and fills in some of
the missing pieces, then perhaps (it's too early to say this,
but I'm just musing about it) Line 6 has missed the boat:
A mite too little, a mite too late.

-- Dr.Dipwad

P.S. On the other hand, the AxeFX may be missing a couple
of features which the Vetta has. One thing I notice: You
can't plug your Variax directly into the AxeFX and have the
AxeFX govern the Variax's sound-changes. There may be other
features Vetta has which AxeFX doesn't, also. But I'm not
yet aware of them.
Edited by - DrDipwad on 03/24/2005 20:38:40
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LEX
Member-At-Large

USA
447 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2005 : 09:45:13 Show Profile Email Poster
Yeah, I also skimmed thru the manual...this thing has mucho goodies. IMO Cliff should re-think the user interface, put some encoder knobs on the beast. That would make it friendlier for live use.

I can't find the link for the manual now, wanted to post it here. Dr. or Dutch, can you help?
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darc
Large Member

USA
884 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2005 : 09:55:56 Show Profile Email Poster Visit darc's Homepage
"assuming the tones are good"

That's the million dollar question, but better said "assuming the
tones are better than Vetta", which is totally subjective. Anybody
can write in an owners manual/press release that their tones
are "uncompromised" etc and even go as far as to use the best
components available to reach those ends. But in a design like this
99% of it is in the design and implementation of the software
algorithms, and this is a highly subjective, creative process. You
couldn't simply say that AxeFX reverb X is "better" than the Vetta
reverb X, for instance. You might be able to quantify that AxeFX
has superior bit depth or sample rate or quieter caps in the output
section or whatever, but the biggest factor - the "secret sauce" -
are the decisions that comprise the code. Same said for
compressors, and of course amp and cab sims.


That said, the guy's got some good design philosophy here and I wish
him all the best.
Edited by - darc on 03/24/2005 09:57:10
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LEX
Member-At-Large

USA
447 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2005 : 16:43:17 Show Profile Email Poster
Nevermind...I found the link to the manual.

http://www.netway.com/~cliff/axefx.pdf

Hey, anybody notice there is no channel volume control on the display in the picture? I wonder if it is on page 2?





LEX
(Uh....when's downbeat?)
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DrDipwad
Large Member

938 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2005 : 20:36:06 Show Profile
Lex:

I suppose that stuff is on page 2. The manual says that the
following parameters are available for an Amp Simulator module:

TYPE
DRIVE
BASS, MID, TREB
PRES
HI CUT
SAG
MSTR VOL
LEVEL
PAN
BYPASS MODE

...and it explains that Level is used to "fine tune the volume".

Interestingly, Master Volume is not used to alter the volume, but
instead to simulate how the tubes respond differently on a tube
amp when running the amp at a high master volume level, producing
power-tube distortion. Though on a normal amp, this would
simultaneously increase the actual output volume, it doesn't
do this on the AxeFX; instead, as the simulated master volume
increases (thus overdriving the power amp) the power amp output
is attenuated (as if you were using a Marshall "brake" thingy
or similar load device) to keep the overall volume the same.

Therefore, the Level control is used to actually alter the volume.

-- Dr.Dipwad
Edited by - DrDipwad on 03/24/2005 20:37:41
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DrDipwad
Large Member

938 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2005 : 20:42:14 Show Profile
One other note:

I recall that I, and some other folks on this forum, expressed
a wish for a rackmount box which would be a re-creation of the
Digitech GSP-2101...but with today's modeling technology instead
of the somewhat lame 5-6 tube distortions and pretty awful analog
cabinet simulator that the GSP-2101 had back then. And, of course,
with more processing power, higher bit-depth, better signal-to-
noise, et cetera.

It seems to me that the AxeFX fills that niche pretty nicely.

-- Dr.Dipwad
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Dutch
Giant Member

Netherlands
2051 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2005 : 08:17:17 Show Profile Email Poster
I tried the soundbites through better speakers than my laptop and I'm not
blown away yet. Some nice tones, but most I didn't care too much for.

Then again, who here was blown away by Vetta's factory sounds?

I'll keep an eye out.
Very curious about the street price, though.

-----ooooOOOOoooo-----
Whatever you do, don't miss it!!
Edited by - Dutch on 03/25/2005 08:18:11
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DrDipwad
Large Member

938 Posts

Posted - 03/25/2005 : 15:42:29 Show Profile
My understanding is that the street price will be comparable to high-end T.C.Electronic, or low-end Eventide, processors. Not cheap.

-- Dr.Dipwad
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I'm glad Line6 didn't snap him up. If they had, the Axe FX would never have been as good as it is now. I mean Line6 doesn't put out very many updates and they want to make things cheap rather than high quality and powerful. Cliff has outstanding leadership and development with the highest QC demands. He is always looking to improve and expand the capabilities of his products. And he participates regularly with his customers and listens to requests.. And the man delivers!
 
The interesting part for me was, Line6, DigiTech and the other large companies will have seen this coming, and watched it appear and sail right by them, totally incapable of doing anything about it.
In large businesses / corporations, they often get to the stage where they are so busy resting on their laurels, and their management are literally terrified of taking a punt on something daring and new, the risk seems so much greater when your feet are under the table and there is potentially more to lose if it fails. Ultimately you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Line6 didn't and well, they ended up getting sold off. Digitech lost the plot and went back to making pedals again.
 
This is awesome :) thanks for posting.

I discovered online around 06 and grew increasingly fascinated until I finally got my own (Ultra) in 2008. But around this time, '05 or so, I actually remember following Scott Peterson's threads on TGP about all his efforts to make digital rigs work for him, PRE Axe-Fx. I think he tried various modellers, Line 6, etc, and went into lots of detail about amps and cabs to work with them, and the conclusion was always something like 'it almost works.. I could almost use this.. but not quite'. Then a while later he got an Axe-Fx Standard and started that legendary TGP 'This Thing is a Monster!' thread.

It's been a fun ride since then :)
 
Very cool.

I have owned a bunch of Line 6 and Digitech gear since forever. From the GSP 21, to the first red bean (I STILL use a guitarport I got in like 2001 or 2002 with my old laptop for practicing on the road on business trips), POD XT Live, and a GSP1101. Never could stand any of that stuff for actual live use. Not for one single tone. It was all narrow, flat, boxy, and fake. Great for quiet headphone practice, but that's it for me. For me, Fractal is a very important piece of invention. It changed forever an important part of my world. As a musician, this thing is a important to me as an iphone is the the rest of the world.
 
Robboman said:
This is awesome :) thanks for posting.
...

Then a while later he got an Axe-Fx Standard and started that legendary TGP 'This Thing is a Monster!' thread.

...
Click to expand...

Was around this time too. I was on TGP, and a few other boards where there we're the disparate 3/4 people who had one. The madness had not yet begun. There was another person who had one...can't remember his name, but he and others posted the 1st few reviews on HC. Soon a few guys here in Denver had them, and suddenly EVERYONE wanted one. I got mine after a relatively short wait list in Feb 07.

I remember quite a bit of scorn, but an overall positive reaction from board members...Scott commands a bit of respect. There were scuffles over Line6 vs Fractal. But mostly people were INTERESTED. I asked a few pointed questions to some guy who seemed like he knew a lot about it, and was promptly informed that 'cliffcXXX' was the actual designer/builder. 1st time that I have seen a designer take THAT much interest in what the community had to say. Respect.

But I knew the second I fired it up that this was something so different it would change things. I didn't miss playing my MOD50. Started out with a Mesa 20/20 through a 2x12 vertical cab, and in a short time the only way to get all this had to offer was to go FRFR.

The MOD50 was sold after I brushed an inch of dust off of it, and I have not looked at another amp since. Best gear purchase I've ever made.

A setbb board was created for all things Axe FX, then shortly we had the official Fractal board.

Life is good.
 
iaresee said:
It was Scott's "This thing is a monster" thread on TGP that hipped me to Fractal and...well...changed my guitar-playing life. Good times indeed.
Click to expand...

Same. Seems like forever ago. Still the best gear purchase decesion I ever made.
Congrats Fractal on 10 years
 
Wallimann's Eleven Rack vs Axe-FX Ultra stuff and the 11R vs. Fractal discussion on the DUC is what got me here. Didn't even know what TGP was yet.
 
I got hipped to Cliff in 2006 and read everything till I placed my order directly in March-April of 2007. I called Eric (one of our Colorado members) - who owned a Standard - on the phone and blew him up with questions. June 2007 I was sitting here in this same room I am in right now kneeling over this black box with headphones on fresh out of the box with the wife yelling at me to cut it out and take everyone to dinner. I was stuck on the "Eruption" preset and knew this box was the real deal.

My original Standard was inside of the first ones when Cliff was still hand building them in his kitchen/garage.

That was just about 8 years ago now.

Wow.
 
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