Axe-Fx III Firmware 31.02 Release

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Which version? There's been many "revisions" over the years. They began as literally the same product. Maxon was the original manufacturer of Ibanez pedals for many years. Supposedly, Maxon could not directly export their products at the time, so it was sold under the Ibanez brand internationally as the TS-808 and the Maxon OD-808 was for the Japan domestic market but they were the same pedal. The later "reissues" of each post 2002 after the Maxon/Ibanez contract ended are a bit all over the place.
 
Not having a mid-bump doesn't equal transparent
« transparent » is maybe not the good word, but this is the only tubescreamer type that didn’t change the nature of the amp tone
Or at least didn’t add that unpleasant mid boost that I didn’t want. When I add the maxon I still have my tone with better low end and slight more gain. I have that transparent feel . Natural . Like boobs in the winds 🦋

Anyway. I said it was not the same , and 10 pages after we now know that Cliff didn’t owned a maxon 😆

On your knees ! Whiplash ! 😆

(Yes I believed the maxoff was a a maxon 808)
 
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I just dug up my "old" Maxon OD 808 and recorded some chords using a looper so the level stays consistant. Then I ran it through the Maxon OD 808 straight into my audio interface and compared these two. Measured in RMS, the actual Maxon 808 seems to boost the signal by 8,4 db RMS. (Not sure if RMS makes sense, but it did to me for now).

I replicated this test using the Axe and the Maxoff 808 with identical settings, there I get a boost of 8,1 db RMS, which seems to be fairly accurate? At least considering my quick and dirty test...
 
Generally speaking...to me overdrive use Is a typical mental Guitar player refuse from the past...i mean they were introducted to boost amps with not enough gain isn it? Today people put it in front everything especially super high gain amps just seems because it s a state of mind...i think if you need to do that or you have wrong pickups or wrong amp...
And for Cliff....the Need of a pedal in front of a 3000 dollars amp is it not an amp design flaw?
Just for talking...it s not a complain against anyone.
 
Generally speaking...to me overdrive use Is a typical mental Guitar player refuse from the past...i mean they were introducted to boost amps with not enough gain isn it? Today people put it in front everything especially super high gain amps just seems because it s a state of mind...i think if you need to do that or you have wrong pickups or wrong amp...
And for Cliff....the Need of a pedal in front of a 3000 dollars amp is it not an amp design flaw?
Just for talking...it s not a complain against anyone.


no that’s not a state of mind. Or a design flaw.
Just that a maxon through a dual rectifier is to me a metal tone reference, if not the best metal tone I ever heard .
By default this amp goes well for « open chords « Wall of sounds , but when you palm mute with it, it got too much bass .

They are zero pickups in this world that can change it. I have 30 different pickups here, and none of them can Affect a dual like a tubescreamer does.

I ve been to others brands that are design for metal , engl, peavy.. but after a year you get bored with it, because of the lack of personality.

Modern gear is finally vintage gear with some mods, nothing more .

They tried to include the boost in the badlander, but it didn’t sound the same. They create the jp2c, that doesn’t need nothing, but it doesn’t sound that huge than the recto .

Then it is just an opinion hm! Maybe someone think that amp X is his favorite amp.

I use boogie since 25 years now, owned 6 heads, still got 2, and yeah when I bought this dual rectifier (rev D) this month and put the maxon last week , I piss in my pants . That’s the tone to me.
Before buying it, I turn it at 4 through a cab.. it s been a long time I didn’t do that
It was like taking a ride in Harley Davidson. There is no words for that . It just kick ass
 
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Regarding Overdrive Pedals: After a gig some random guy from the audience approached me and complained about me bringing a Marshall head, but getting all my sounds from my Maxon OD 808. Well...

Regarding Maxoff vs. Maxon: I ran the Ozone match EQ over both samples. The orange line represents the Maxoff 808 of the Axe FX III Turbo, the blue line represents the real Maxon 808 Pedal. The white line is what was applied to the real Maxon to sound like the Axe's Maxoff. Not really a big difference except the very low-end. Makes sense, because I don't hear a big difference either. Just seems that the low end is lowered a hair more on the Maxon 808.

EDIT: I mixed the colors up...
 

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Regarding Overdrive Pedals: After a gig some random guy from the audience approached me and complained about me bringing a Marshall head, but getting all my sounds from my Maxon OD 808. Well...

Regarding Maxoff vs. Maxon: I ran the Ozone match EQ over both samples. The orange line represents the Maxoff 808 of the Axe FX III Turbo, the blue line represents the real Maxon 808 Pedal. The white line is what was applied to the real Maxon to sound like the Axe's Maxoff. Not really a big difference except the very low-end. Makes sense, because I don't hear a big difference either. Just seems that the low end is lowered a hair more on the Maxon 808.

EDIT: I mixed the colors up...
Did you put the real maxon in front of the axe like it was a head , or do you incorporate it in a loop in the preset ? Personally It was with the pedal in the front
 
Did you put the real maxon in front of the axe like it was a head , or do you incorporate it in a loop in the preset ? Personally It was with the pedal in the front
No, I kept them separate because I don't really know what kind of impact it has when I run actual guitar pedals into Axe input jack:

1) Looper pedal --> Maxon OD 808 --> Audio Interface
Just to compare how much louder the signal gets when I engage the real Maxon with a cranked level knob.
Results: -14,4 db RMS with the Maxon ON, -22,8 db RMS with the Maxon off.

2) Looper pedal --> Axe FX Instrument input --> New and empty Preset with just the Maxoff 808 --> Recorded via USB
Results: -12,7 db RMS with the Maxoff 808 on, -20,3 db RMS with the Maxoff 808 off/bypassed.

Then using the match EQ I analyzed the recoding of the Maxoff 808 and applied it to the recording of the actual Maxon.
 
No, I kept them separate because I don't really know what kind of impact it has when I run actual guitar pedals into Axe input jack:

1) Looper pedal --> Maxon OD 808 --> Audio Interface
Just to compare how much louder the signal gets when I engage the real Maxon with a cranked level knob.
Results: -14,4 db RMS with the Maxon ON, -22,8 db RMS with the Maxon off.

2) Looper pedal --> Axe FX Instrument input --> New and empty Preset with just the Maxoff 808 --> Recorded via USB
Results: -12,7 db RMS with the Maxoff 808 on, -20,3 db RMS with the Maxoff 808 off/bypassed.

Then using the match EQ I analyzed the recoding of the Maxoff 808 and applied it to the recording of the actual Maxon.
Ah ok. Just the pedal so. Yeah me too, I read that putting some effects in the front is not always a good idea .. hm ..

Also it can be, that the “problem” is the mix between the axe maxon + the amp block.
if you can try the pedal in the front against the maxon in the axe, in whatever Marshall/ Mesa in the amp block 👍
 
Done 👍:
I recorded a new riff into the looper. Signal chain as following:
Looper pedal --> Maxon OD 808 --> Axe FX III Instrument jack. Inside the Preset: Input 1 --> Maxoff 808 --> Amp --> Cab --> Out

I did three recordings of this one. First without any boost, second with Maxoff only, third with Maxon only.

The orange line (reference) is again the Maxoff, the blue line (target) is the real Maxon running into the Axe FX III input jack at the front. They look surprisingly identical so I just double checked that I didn't mix things up, but I was super careful. Hard to read, but one bar in the chart represents 1db, so frequency wise the difference between the real Maxon and the Maxoff is below 0.3 db across the entire frequency range. I'll try to figure out how I can upload these two recordings so you can listen to them rather than just looking at some charts...

Edit: uploaded to SoundCloud:
 

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Technically this might belong into the previous firmware release (30.01) since the change log mentions the following:

Improved Amp block preamp modeling (again). This yields more accurate behavior when the amp input is pushed (e.g., when using an internal or external overdrive/boost).

So IMHO this is not necessarily off-topic, though for me the Maxoff model seems to be accurate considering the recent FW improvements.
 
The 808 reference pedal is an Ibanez, not a Maxon. The Maxon may indeed sound different. I don't know, I don't have one.

The schematics are almost identical. They should sound very close.

I've heard reports that some of the Maxons had a different resistor in series with the Drive pot. This would reduce the amount of gain and the mid hump when the control is turned all the way down. It's also a popular mod to reduce that resistor value for just this reason.
What I love is that every drive includes its own EQ. This can make a significant difference to the tone at the amp’s input, so much so that the subtle differences between drive models virtually disappear.
 
Generally speaking...to me overdrive use Is a typical mental Guitar player refuse from the past...i mean they were introducted to boost amps with not enough gain isn it? Today people put it in front everything especially super high gain amps just seems because it s a state of mind...i think if you need to do that or you have wrong pickups or wrong amp...
And for Cliff....the Need of a pedal in front of a 3000 dollars amp is it not an amp design flaw?
Just for talking...it s not a complain against anyone.
No...

The effect of boosting and/or pre-EQ'ing into the amp input achieves results you won't get with an amp alone.
 
I agree. Accuracy is accuracy. Maybe the modeling from the am4 which is "accurate amp modeling" and "behaves like the originals" is trickling down to AFIII and that would explain the differences? And now that they have it, it will not change. To your point, I have not updated the firmware but it does mean that you don't get the new effects (if you need them) and if you do, you do have to potentially rework a lot of your presets so I would personally disagree that it "make sense".
The problem is that everyone hears things differently, especially when it comes to an opinion of "what's best". Cliff's mad scientist progress has produced incredible progress in the last 18 - 19 years. During this time some have loved changes and some have not. Surely you understand that, though the latest changes don't work for you, many (most?) others disagree. Hearing acuity, guitar makers, guitar models, wood used in a guitar, pickups, strings, picks used, picking attack, brand of strings used, type of strings used (flat wound or round wound?), gauge of strings used, age of life of strings, playing technique, listening environment, the device that you use to listen back to the model, humidity, guitar cables (there are shoot outs between cables, for goodness sake), or the urban legend that Eric Johnson can hear the difference between batteries used in pedals, how much a speaker has been broken in, and other things that don't come to mind, all impact how something sounds. Given all of these inescapable variables, how can one person define what is best? All it takes is a change of one of the variables that I mentioned above and the amp will sound different. I've read more than one interview with an engineer who stated that, even using the same gear in the same location, with the same mic/mic placement sometimes cannot replicate the exact same tone.

To my admittedly abused ears, the modeling, as it currently is, sounds incredible. This is of course just my opinion. I respect that, what other's love some may not like at all, even find inferior. But how can personal perspective, opinion, and the crazy concoction of variables I mentioned above define "best"? Music/Art is by nature unique to each of us. Some love death metal. I really dislike it and would much prefer to listen to something like Pat Metheny's Watercolors or Steven Wilson's The Overview. I embrace the differences and I'm grateful that we can all listen to what floats our boat. Different strokes for different folks.

I've decided that fixating on perfection often diverts me from artistic expression. So I do my best to focus on bringing to the outside world what I hear/feel/experience on the inside. I read an interview years ago with an old blues artist who loved playing so much (I think that it was an interview with Buddy Guy, but not 100% about this), that they never gave a second thought to using an old beat up guitar and a beat up old amp that was laying around at a blues club that he frequented. He didn't complain that the strings were old, or the guitar was poorly setup, or that the amp was neglected and in need of servicing. He was just glad to play.

I believe that you are trying to get as close as possible to having a tone that is similar to what's in your mind when you create. That's an awesome thing (sincere comment) and often sets apart revolutionary artists from run of the mill. But my understanding is that Cliff is using digital technology and mad programming skills to achieve accuracy. Is it accuracy to your ears or mine? Or someone else's? Is it accuracy based upon variables lining up to your liking? My liking? Someone else on the forum's liking? A poll that tabulates which opinion is most popular?

I am confident that Cliff is doing his sincere best to create something that is as accurate as possible. He measures shit to figure out just how accurate something is. The latest firmware reflects an epiphany that resulted from his recognition that he measured something different on the amp when comparing measurements of the modeling. So he figured out a way to make the model closer, based up these measurements. I have also seen him own up many times (dozens?) when something is off. And he typically has a fix ready within days, sometimes even the same day.

Something is working right in Cliff's creative process (at least in my opinion). I just can't see how asking for recordings of all the amps after every firmware update is going to help. To my mind it will just open up another long string of arguments about "what's best." Someone likes old firmware, someone else likes new firmware. These arguments have occurred many times, sometimes accompanied by rudeness entitlement, even when folks get free stuff. I remember all of the negativity that came out when the AxeFX III was released and people complained when Cliff maxed out the capabilities of the AxeFX II and had to stop firmware development for the AxeFX II platform.

I for one will be sad when Cliff gets fed up with the lot of us, sells Fractal Audio to someone else. I'm a bit surprised that it hasn't happened already. Do you really think Cliff hasn't already been offered millions of dollars for his intellectual property, not to mention the value of the Fractal Audio brand? It will be a sad day when we lose free updates and constant innovation and near instant bug fixes to corporate bean counters and bureaucracy. I try not to think about it, but I'll bet some days the lure of millions and the notion of taking cruises and ski vacations, or touring on a Harley, or ?, give Cliff pause. He is so driven that maybe he loves the challenge enough that solving the next riddle of modeling tone is fulfilling enough. But back surgeries and tumor removal and daily stress take their toll. I'm just incredibly grateful for Cliff's genius, business values and practices. Especially when personal integrity is missing from so many areas and from so many people in our society.

In my humble opinion, we have something very special here. Let's celebrate it now, while it's still here and vibrant. Someday, things will change. I for one will look back on this time fondly and wish there was still someone like Cliff using his/her genius to innovate and create.
 
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