Prs archon mini game : helix or axe ? (With results page 3)

Yeah I checked the prices before I commented. Definitely more cash, but I was more thinking I guess generally. Like, the rack helix is too much money so you get a HX stomp. So to say it’s too much money any of their products when they hit every price tier.. You know what I mean lol
 
cole lewis said:
All the reasons why Line 6 dominates the market.

1) Money. Doesn’t really need to be said but, we are talking about a company that’s been going for about 30 years now with various products selling so so so many. DL4, the Spider amps, etc.
2) Marketing. What does a company with so much capital have the ability to do, marketing.
3) Meeting price points of every musician. Literally they gave every single tier of musician an option at this point.
4) Their stuff looks cool especially to young people.
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Line6 is owned and backed by Yamaha. Boss/Roland is probably their real competition rather than Fractal.

One thing missing from your list is availability. You can get a Helix from a whole lot of places. You can buy a Fractal only from a select few vendors or direct if you are in the US. As an European it has always been annoying to have to wait many months to be able to get a new Fractal product after it starts shipping in the US. I hope for future products Fractal is able to ship them globally faster.
 
My name is mud said:
(Results in page 3 ! )

hey !
just a mini entertainment of the day
same guitar, same ir ... I try to match by ears, the settings are quite the same
I will tell the result when they are enough answers

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B is clearly the Helix. More scooped and has that characteristic "fizz". If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat (but I'll need some ketchup).
 
My name is mud said:
That’s not playing , i do 3 chords
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With 3 chords, Kemper can also often sound spot on :) I appreciate the test btw.

Just a friendly suggestion: you clearly can play a lot of stuff on the guitar, so it would be nice if we saw some more licks in comparisons like this.

I only mention it, because having done a gazzilion comparisons myself elsewhere, I've often seen cases where variety reveals further differences.

You do play mutes here, and that's good, but maybe some single note lines would be useful. Or some slash lick too thrown in :)
 
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just an FYI - you can make the axeFX sound worse than the helix. You didn't do that here, but...... you could easily do that.

Online A and B comparisons aren't really that useful to me because of that fact.
 
MicroMort said:
just an FYI - you can make the axeFX sound worse than the helix. You didn't do that here, but...... you could easily do that.

Online A and B comparisons aren't really that useful to me because of that fact.
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Sure, which is part of why trust plays into these tests.

The viewer (typically) has to trust that the test maker is conducting the test in good faith.. and also that they have some understanding of how to tweak the units, conduct the test.

In this specific case, I trust the person's good faith and ability (not that mistakes can't still be made).
 
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Before the reveal, I noted that (to me) B sounds congested with less note separation/clarity than A. Also, after listening a few more times, the attack sounds blurred in B relative to A. (I don't have good HF hearing and on ear-buds not sure I heard the characteristic fizz Cliff picked out.)

On first listen though, I immediately viscerally liked A over B due to what sounds clearer and like more dimension and variation in the distortion. That didn't mean it was the Axe, but it sounded like what the Axe can do.

If they were EQ'd closer, maybe B gets less distinguishable from the Axe. But I suspect certain aspects like dynamics and clarity will always be better (or at least more realistic) in the Axe due to detailed component-level modeling.
 
Most people just hear frequency response, especially with higher gain tones. As your ear becomes attuned to these things you learn to hear beyond that: distortion "texture", compression, "clutter", etc. The uneducated ear will usually pick the louder sound as the "best" and in this test clip "B" was measurably louder, about 2 dB. That's the old stereo salesman trick. Clip B also had more bass which the uneducated ear will also typically ascribe as sounding "better".
 
I just listened on my little work PC speakers (which do have a sub, so not totally tinny) having already seen Cliff's comment. I am reminded of a few years ago when I was researching what the latest things I should consider upgrading to from my Pod Farm were and was watching/listening to all those Ax8, Helix and Kemper comparisons doing the YouTube rounds at the time. I always heard something I preferred in the Fractal and it was less hyped bass and synthetic high end and especially more graininess in the mids (in a good way, maybe not the best word) giving an all round warmer, darker sound (is that a contradiction?) Maybe a bit like comparing tape and digital recording with the tape giving the pleasing saturation which tames the harsh/brittle high end. Anyway, then the FM3 was announced and before long I got impatient waiting for that to get to Europe and bought my Axe FX3. Everything worked out for the best. In this comparison I preferred the Fractal.
 
fractalz said:
Listening to YouTube compressed audio through AirPods == critical listening?

🤦‍♂️

Sorry, one of my peeves. Ask a band for a reference track in the studio and they pull out their phones and dial up some YouTube video while we are sitting in a room with $20,000 monitors!
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Was on my phone when I saw the post and I did it for fun mostly

That’s why I mentioned it, sad truth is most people these days listen to something like these and their phone speakers and laptops and It is sad that it went through expensive process of production just tobe heard on small speakers but it is what it is
 
cole lewis said:
All the reasons why Line 6 dominates the market.

1) Money. Doesn’t really need to be said but, we are talking about a company that’s been going for about 30 years now with various products selling so so so many. DL4, the Spider amps, etc.
2) Marketing. What does a company with so much capital have the ability to do, marketing.
3) Meeting price points of every musician. Literally they gave every single tier of musician an option at this point.
4) Their stuff looks cool especially to young people.

I’m sure I could go on.

This is just my opinion but what amazes me is Fractal obliterating these other companies in accuracy. While having no where near the funds / capital. Not only accuracy but the amount of stuff we get in the Axe is unparalleled. Fanboy-ism is annoying but at the end of the day. Most people have to pick a favorite. My favorite is the Axe FX.
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I would say as a counter point to that, that previous L6 products were not great so probably put people off more than it encouraged them. The HD500 wasn't brilliant, the Spiders were awful, the Vetta was good but the only really good thing they've produced is the Helix.

Not sure how good L6 is at marketing but you know what is unbeatable marketing? It's when names like Petrucci, Satriani, Metallica and Def Leppard are using your gear. For me, that is priceless endorsement because you know if those guys are using it, it's probably the best thing you can get. I will fight the corner of the Helix on a few fronts but I get flamed in the L6 forum every time I bring up the fact that many of the biggest artists in the world are using fractals (in Leppard's case they are using the amp sims also, I know because I asked Phil Collen's tech!) but no big names are using Helix and that's just a fact you can't get around. Jen Majura does use the Helix in Evanescence but that's the only big name band that i know of using Helix, and to be honest when I hear her play demo's it sounds below par to me, I get better tones than she does, she is a better player though lol.

Kiko Loreiro is using QC in Megadeth (and Dave now) and he does a fair bit on youtube talking about the device, which is interesting that they've gone that direction. I've no doubt it's helping their sales though
 
Previous products not so great... I don’t think you realize just how many of those Spider amps have sold my dude.

I used DL4 as another example as it is not seen as a joke by “professional” musicians. Whether or not something is actually good is not my point. Regardless of how good the Spider amps are, they’ve sold so so so many.

And marketing.. marketing is when I go on Instagram and 1 out of 10 times my ads are for Line 6 products. THAT is marketing.
 
Yep. Two very different goals between a big corporation and a small "boutique" company.

Both need to make profit to survive, but the main driver of a (esp. public) corporation is the maximize profit. For smaller companies it can be to provide a niche product or service that the big guys simply can't or won't.

I don't know of many originally small niche companies that tried to grow/expand where this didn't irreversibly alter (or corrupt) the original vision, products or services.
 
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