Can a Physical Preamp Be Modelled as a Custom Amp Block in the AXE FX III?

GregL225

GregL225

Member
I've recently been reunited with a very rare, vintage tube preamp after nearly 20 years of parting with it and would love to be able to create some kind of digital clone in the AXE FX III. I've seen tutorials and discussions on creating custom cabinet IRs and tone match blocks, but is there some way that I could create a custom amp block (with tone control knobs) of this device? I'm thinking that maybe a tone match block with my basic settings baked in might be the only way to accomplish this? I haven't yet attempted to create any custom IRs, so please forgive my novice inquiry.

I setup the physical preamp as a sidechain in the AXE FX just to test and make sure that this old beauty was still functioning and was almost literally blown away by it. Here's a little video demo of the results. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd really love to figure out a way to create a digital clone of this preamp in the AXE FX. Cheers!

GL Langner Preamp 1920px.jpg
 
Those are indeed rare beasts, congrats! I know Todd designed the ADA MP-1 so I imagine this has some of the same modded Marshall DNA.

Your best approach here would be to find an amp model that gets you as close as possible to your preferred setting on the physical preamp and then use a tone match to close the gap. Tone match is an EQ match though and won't create a "custom amp model" though. You can dive into advanced parameters in the amp block if your familiar with the preamps circuit design, but that can be difficult if you're not familiar with the specific design.


Otherwise send the preamp and a schematic to Cliff and have them model it :D
 
2112 said:
Otherwise send the preamp and a schematic to Cliff and have them model it :D
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Is that even an option??? If it were, I would very seriously consider that. I'd love to contribute a model of this preamp for all AXE FX users if that were even a possibility. Heck, I've been without this preamp for nearly 20 years and the AXE FX III already contains more than enough incredible sounding amp models to last an entire lifetime. There's just something special and perhaps sentimental about this particular unit that I'd really love to see (and hear) cloned in the AXE FX. :D
 
Maybe you could get the needed information about the tonestack of your preamp by running several tonematches with extreme settings. That way you could see what the controls do and find a model that matches.
 
GregL225 said:
Is that even an option??? If it were, I would very seriously consider that. I'd love to contribute a model of this preamp for all AXE FX users if that were even a possibility. Heck, I've been without this preamp for nearly 20 years and the AXE FX III already contains more than enough incredible sounding amp models to last an entire lifetime. There's just something special and perhaps sentimental about this particular unit that I'd really love to see (and hear) cloned in the AXE FX. :D
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That would be wonderful
 
666was999 said:
Maybe you could get the needed information about the tonestack of your preamp by running several tonematches with extreme settings. That way you could see what the controls do and find a model that matches.
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Yeah, thanks, I hear you, but that's not really what I'm interesting in doing. I'd much rather have a cloned model of this specific device inside the AXE FX as one of the many "options" and to use if/when needed. It would be wonderful to preserve its DNA as very rare and special piece of hardware. Plus, I love having everything stored inside the AXE FX III and was hoping to not need to keep the physical chassis connected as a sidechain device. I'm not trying to find another amp block that matches it. There are already plenty of amazing amp models to choose from. I was just curious if it were possible, and understand now that it's not something I can do here on my own.
 
BHP has a kemper profile pack for it, which is killer but obviously a Fractal model would be a dream come true. This thing sounds so friggin gnarly I'd buy a real one in a heartbeat if they ever showed up on Reverb.

 
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I haven't tried adding a power amp modeler to this signal chain because I'm running it out into a relatively linear output system (Matrix GT1000FX power amp into a Matrix FRFR 2x12 elements cab). I just wanted to hear the pre-amp through a pair of 4x12 cabinet IRs. Back in the early 90's, when I used this preamp as part of my rig, it was also running into a solid state power amp and modified Marshall 4x12 cabinet. I always liked the sound of that setup, so I never tried running it into anything else. Honestly, I already have several customized Fractal Presets that blow this preamp away, but it's just a rare, and sentimental piece of hardware that I wanted to try and clone into the AXE FX.
 
State of Epicicity said:
This thread led me to a bit of reading, and this man’s work is very interesting. I can’t believe I hadn’t heard the name before.
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Todd Langner certainly doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's definitely on the Mount Rushmore (+1) of original Marshall amp modders:

Jose Arredondo

Frank Levi

Tim Caswell

Todd Langner

Reinhold Bogner

I like the "newer" generation of modders like John Suhr, Dave Friedman, Mark Cameron, Mike Fortin, Martin Golub too, but those 5 are the original modders. I didn't grow up playing guitar in the 80's and 90's, so maybe I left out a few names that I should have included. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

We have Jose covered for the most part (Cameron's and Friedman's amps are based on Jose mods plus the Sat switch is a Zener Diode Master mod a la Jose, would be cool to have a Steve Vai mod Marshall Plexi, though), we got Caswell covered with the Soldano X99, Bogner with his own amps and Levi with the Marshall AFD model. The only one missing out of that list is Langner, and, from what I gathered from various forum threads, his designs are certainly unique enough to be added to the Axe collection. There's a bunch to choose from: ADA MP-1 3TM, DCP-1, many modded Marshalls from the Bay Area Thrash scene etc.

This guy on youtube builds a clone of the Langner DCP-1 preamp so there must be a schematic out there for it, or maybe he drew it up himself:



Here's a rig talk thread that discusses Langner's Hyper mod with schematics and gut shots of the DCP-1:

https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/threads/langner-hyper-mod.238340/#post-2724711

Maybe Cliff won't add it because we already have an amp that features a similar preamp topology and we just don't know it. Maybe Cornfords or Hooks have sometihng similar going on, I don't know. I'd definitely like to see a Langner based amp in the Axe, though, doesn't matter if it's under the Langner or a different banner.
 
@GregL225 I do think it would be cool for the comparison with the unprocessed preamp at the end still to have the cab sim after it, because any amp played without a cab or cab sim will sound awful! Basically just turning off the Comp, the PEQ, the M-Comp would be a cool comparison. As I peruse threads about Langner designs, I see how many albums with great tones were recorded with his amps. Thanks for making us aware of this cool piece of gear!
 
So I found a copy of the Langner DCP-1 schematics in a PDF online (attached). Sure would be amazing if the folks at Fractal Audio were interested in cloning this into an amp model to include in all AXE FX III Processors. Yes, there's a lot of interesting history around this preamp in general and this very specific unit in particular.
 

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