R.I.P Phillip Seymour Hoffman

DukeOfPrunes said:
Been a huge fan of PSH for many years. Scent of a Woman was his break-out role. He did well in Magnolia and The Talented Mr. Ripley, but where I really started taking note of his amazing depth of talent, was in Love Liza and Owning Mahowny. Those roles were huge for him and garnished critical acclaim. He was truly one of the best actors of his generation and this is a tremendous loss for his family and fans.
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Hoffman's acting opposite Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks in 'Charlie Wilson's War' was excellent too.
 
NY Guitarist said:
Hoffman's acting opposite Julia Roberts and Tom Hanks in 'Charlie Wilson's War' was excellent too.
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Completely agree, yet another one of his movies where he delivered in spades...One of my favorite scenes in the movie was when he let his boss have it and broke his office window in front of everyone; his delivery was amazing...
 
levipeto said:
It's not about being right. It's about being respectful.
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There is nothing respectful about a junkie taking his own life. Celebrity or not. The reason I say this is because he caused pain and heartache to the loved ones he left behind. Like his three young children. They will grow up without a father because he couldn't and wouldn't control his addiction and address it.
 
Kidsfeet said:
There is nothing respectful about a junkie taking his own life. Celebrity or not. The reason I say this is because he caused pain and heartache to the loved ones he left behind. Like his three young children. They will grow up without a father because he couldn't and wouldn't control his addiction and address it.
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Teach us, please! Tell us more!
 
Hating on a dead addict is a cheap, pointless act that improves nothing. Why spend the effort?
Do you think hating on them is more of a warning than that he's dead? With death on the table, talk is empty words.

The focus on "drugs" is an easy way out. Seems a safe bet that he had other issues, like most addicts the drugs are rarely the real point they are just the manifestation.
The "he was selfish!" card is another empty thump for the righteous, a misdirected anger unless he was your actual dad, brother, etc then that's another matter entirely. Then its your family and we should all be quiet.

Those shouting him down are taking a sad moment and just making it ugly. The harder thing, the better thing is working to help addicts, but they are no easy solutions there. No TV soundbyte moment, just effort over time. Patience and hope.

Let's try to bring patience and optimism to those who need it, not easy condemnation that changes nothing.
 
FPFL said:
Hating on a dead addict is a cheap, pointless act that improves nothing. Why spend the effort?
Do you think hating on them is more of a warning than that he's dead? With death on the table, talk is empty words.

The focus on "drugs" is an easy way out. Seems a safe bet that he had other issues, like most addicts the drugs are rarely the real point they are just the manifestation.
The "he was selfish!" card is another empty thump for the righteous, a misdirected anger unless he was your actual dad, brother, etc then that's another matter entirely. Then its your family and we should all be quiet.

Those shouting him down are taking a sad moment and just making it ugly. The harder thing, the better thing is working to help addicts, but they are no easy solutions there. No TV soundbyte moment, just effort over time. Patience and hope.

Let's try to bring patience and optimism to those who need it, not easy condemnation that changes nothing.
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The trouble I have with what you are saying is that his celebrity status is overshadowing his drug addiction. This should be an opportunity to highlight the dangers of drug addiction in every media outlet.

I grieve for his family and the heartbreak that his children will not grow up with a father. I couldn't care less about how great of an actor he was at this point. His children have been profoundly and forever affected.
 
Kidsfeet said:
There is nothing respectful about a junkie taking his own life. Celebrity or not. The reason I say this is because he caused pain and heartache to the loved ones he left behind. Like his three young children. They will grow up without a father because he couldn't and wouldn't control his addiction and address it.
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Your comments beg the question, have you ever suffered from some form of addiction? I am certain that you being in the medical field must have witnessed addiction and all its various facets. Isn't addiction an illness?

Sounds like he worked very hard to remain sober and had a relapse and either committed suicide, mis-calculated on the dose, or his body was not able to absorb the dosage on that day. Does that really make him a junkie? Maybe it was a mistake on his part? If he wanted to commit suicide, that would be selfish, given the family he left behind. I don't think the answers are as black and white as people judging seem to want them to be..., IMO, of course.
 
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Kidsfeet said:
The trouble I have with what you are saying is that his celebrity status is overshadowing his drug addiction. This should be an opportunity to highlight the dangers of drug addiction in every media outlet.

I grieve for his family and the heartbreak that his children will not grow up with a father. I couldn't care less about how great of an actor he was at this point. His children have been profoundly and forever affected.
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It's actually a bit more than just his celebrity status (actually, he wasn't half as famous as his acting abilities would dictate and he certainly wasn't someone trying to milk his celebrity status by any means). It's more about the sadness of all the mentally afflicted (addiction included) people that fall because of their inability to cope with life. There are tons of good people fallen due to these types of illnesses; judging them is not at all a positive way forward. Regardless of one's status in life, it is sad to fall because of mental illness.
 
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Kidsfeet said:
The trouble I have with what you are saying is that his celebrity status is overshadowing his drug addiction.
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I get what you are saying and agree, but only to a certain extent.

People know drugs are bad unless they are living in a third world country with no media outlets, even then they probably have some idea. Do you really think most people don't know that heroin is bad for you? People go to drugs for other reasons. This is what makes the problem hard and, frankly, uncomfortable! Drugs can be awful hideous things, no denying that. Its that people have un-addressed issues of poverty, mental illness, etc is how we are going to do better. "Just say no!" is fine but it was never more than a partial answer to a hard question and using a sad moment to reiterate a half-message isn't really helping IMHO.

Its pretty obvious we're only talking about him b/c he's dead. That's the start of the whole conversation of course, that's always the case. That its also a remembrance at the same time doesn't take away from that. People are sad he's dead. He touched their lives being a great actor. Its already too late to help him. How much more time would you have people spend on "drugs are bad" every time someone dies? I'm asking sincerely.

Saying, "I'm saying these things b/c of his kids" is people kidding themselves with good intentions. I'm a father myself fwiw. PSH's kids aren't our family. Did we want to speak for them a week ago or in a month? Why is it our's to do now? Telling every other parent what they already know, "abandoning your kids for almost any reason makes you awful" doesn't improve the conversation IMO.
 
DukeOfPrunes said:
Your comments beg the question, have you ever suffered from some form of addiction? I am certain that you being in the medical filed must have witnessed addiction and all its various facets. Isn't addiction an illness?
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Did you read the part I posted where I was part of committee that helped medical students and doctors overcome their addictions?

I was addicted to tobacco for a long time and quit cold turkey. It was hard, but was for my best of health in the long run. I smoke the occasional cigar, but will always consider myself addicted to tobacco.

He died with a needle stuck in his arm. If that isn't the picture of a junkie, I don't know what is. A mistake?????? Seriously????
 
"He was a brilliant actor".
"He was a drug addict".

Both of these statements are true.
If you wish to pay your respects, do so.
If you don't, by all means, don't.

Just don't argue. Please.
 
Addiction is one of the most complex topics of human nature. It touches on ideas of choice, free will, sickness, depravity, conscience and redemption among many many others. I don't know squat about PSH. He was a great actor. That much is clear. The idea that everybody knows that "heroin is bad" is far too black and white to be realistic. Some of those people know that heroin can feel extraordinarily good. Otherwise why would you do it? I did some a few times many many years ago in Spain (not injected). It was fantastic. I could see how people could get addicted and I'm sure what I experienced was the tip of the iceberg of the experience give how and how little I did.

Drugs are not usually the problem until they are. They are the solution for people who have trouble (as they say in the AA Big Book) "living life on life's terms." Drugs (and alcohol is one of the nastiest drugs around) often make situations and states of mind that are intolerable tolerable until they make them worse. And even then the nature of addiction is that the cure is having more of what's compounding the problem because it's the fastest way to make the pain go away. I don't know what PSH's demons were or what he was trying to escape. Whatever it was, I'm sure his addiction made it worse and compounded problems he already had. I'm sorry he couldn't overcome it. I feel horrible for all the people he left behind trying to grapple in the wake of his death.

There but for the grace of whatever brings us grace go I. Followers of Ayn Rand need not apply (until even their free will won't cut it).
 
Kidsfeet said:
Did you read the part I posted where I was part of committee that helped medical students and doctors overcome their addictions?

I was addicted to tobacco for a long time and quit cold turkey. It was hard, but was for my best of health in the long run. I smoke the occasional cigar, but will always consider myself addicted to tobacco.

He died with a needle stuck in his arm. If that isn't the picture of a junkie, I don't know what is. A mistake?????? Seriously????
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Thanks for sharing! Lets go back and talk about music now!
 
FPFL said:
How much more time would you have people spend on "drugs are bad" every time someone dies? I'm asking sincerely.
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As many times as it takes for our youth to realize that "drugs are bad". As many times as it takes for our youth to realize that if you get hooked on "drugs" you are destroying yourself and the ones who love you.

THIS is the crux of the issue I have. Celebrities are glorified. Even in death. Why? Because they were talented. They killed themselves with a horrible habit. It WAS suicide. Heroin addiction = early death. Self inflicted. The media doesn't say "Drug addict who was a brilliant actor". They say "Brilliant actor who left us too soon. He allegedly died of an accidental drug overdose". As someone who worked with addiction and the addicted, this is sending the wrong message. Every time.
 
This was tragic and it sucks. It should make people angry, regardless of where blame is assigned.
 
Kidsfeet said:
Did you read the part I posted where I was part of committee that helped medical students and doctors overcome their addictions?

I was addicted to tobacco for a long time and quit cold turkey. It was hard, but was for my best of health in the long run. I smoke the occasional cigar, but will always consider myself addicted to tobacco.

He died with a needle stuck in his arm. If that isn't the picture of a junkie, I don't know what is. A mistake?????? Seriously????
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Thanks for answering my question if you had ever suffered from an addiction. How about my other question, is it an illness?

Sounds like you are very strong and were able to conquer your addiction. As a member of the committee, were you able to help everyone find the will and if not, did you also judge the others in the same fashion, i.e. they were just junkies that couldn't be helped?
 
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