Matrix GT1000/Q12 vs Atomic CLR Active Cab Comparison

LVC said:
On-Stage Stands RS7000 Tiltback Amp Stand | Sweetwater.com


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awesome.... that'll do it....
so it looks like you're getting the full juice already....

very nice..
 
Thanks LVC for the honesty in your review. One more example of how different we all are.

I am still mostly playing through my cab live and at rehearsals. I can still record all the different models and cab IRs in my home studio and then hear them back in my KRKs, headphones and any other stereo (car or otherwise). But what I hear on the best stereo does not make THAT much of a difference compared to live. Chasing these tones differences can become a waste of time if one is not careful, IMO.

I do own and play through a Matrix GT1000FX, I am now encouraged by your review and look forward to hearing it through a Q12p soon!
 
I have a pair of passive CLR's and they don't sound boomy using my clean fender presets, but I am using a matrix amp..hmm I wonder if its the amp.
 
I received LVC’s unit back. When I saw this thread I tested it immediately assuming something MUST be wrong with it based on his assessment that it was a “boom box”.

The results were that the DSP was functioning properly, the firmware was correct , presets were working properly and it sounded exactly the same as a known working unit which has been calibrated to our +/- 2b spec from 70Hz to 18kHz. I also put the cab in a variety of positions and experienced no “boominess”.

To be certain, I will have the amplitude response tested by a qualified person with professional measurement equipment and I’ll get back to this thread if it turns out any different.

FYI, all CLR units go through a rigorous testing protocol before they can leave the factory including power handling, amplitude response, rub and buzz, cosmetics, etc. Production is very consistent. The units we ship meet or exceed our spec.

As far as I’m concerned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if LVC has a preference that is not Atomic, I’m fine with that. I can say objectively, however, that CLR is quite flat – more so that some highly regarded and very expensive reference monitors. This is not subjective. If that’s not what you’re looking for and you’d prefer something to augment your source (modeler, program music, preamp, keyboard, etc) the CLR is probably not for you.

It should be noted that the overwhelming number of CLR owner's posting here at the Fractal Forums and elsewhere about the CLR (many of them trusted veterans) do not share the opinion of the original poster.

-TK
 
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FWIW, I am a clean tone guy as well with about thirty years of professional gigging behind me, mostly in jazz and jazz-rock settings.
LVC said:
Amp Position/height - the same
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You stated:
"I do not go through FOH (maybe I will in the future) but for now -- I am completely old school/meat and potatoes -- stand in the corner of the bar with the amp behind me (sound familiar?)."

Yes, this does sound familiar. By your above description I have a question.

Is your speaker (whether FRFR or guitar amp) sitting on the ground behind you and firing at the backs of your legs?

I have a friend who is a magnificent jazz guitarist, about the best I have ever heard. He has spent 40+ years of playing with his amp behind him and firing forward past his legs. All of his sensitivities are tuned to listening to reflections of his sound and not what is actually coming out of his rig. I got him to tilt his amp back at a gig we were playing together and he finally heard what the rest of us were hearing and he couldn't play. Rather than adjust the direct sound, he put the amp back flat.

He has sat in for me on gigs in the past and played through my rig several times. During one set he took my FRFR cab off of its stand and set it on the ground behind him. Beautiful, warm clean tone got muddy and too dark just like that.

My point is, whether or not we are "old school meat and potato" guys, the absolutely worst way to reference guitar tone (traditional rig or FRFR) is with a ground level back line set up firing past our knees. And the phenomena does get weirder in a different way with FRFR cabs. In my friend Mark's case, he is so sonically and psychologically addicted to doing things "the old way" that he simply cannot play any other way.

I believe this is correct:
The only reason the CLR has a "backline" setting is because Jay knew that some folks would insist on using the speaker this way. In terms of testable, measurable constants of acoustics it is the absolutely worst way to use any speaker in any room if you want to have an accurate representation of what you are putting in the room and an accurate representation of what your speaker actually sounds like.. The backline setting cannot completely compensate for the myriad problems that occur when part of the sound is firing directly onto the floor.

Also, the settings on the CLR are not random EQs. Each setting should only be used with its respective positioning of the cabinet. Any adjustments should be made in the Axe itself (try tuning your ears to far-field IRs).
____________

I am somewhat amazed at your experience. I was a bit of a gear freak in the past (serious understatement). Once I got into modeling, I tried LOTS of FRFR solutions including some expensive high-end solutions. The CLR (and its parent Frazier product) are the only two FRFR solutions I have ever used that do not exhibit the problems you cite, and that don't cause a whole bunch of other undesirable sonic stuff.
 
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I just want to say something .... the service and response I got from Tom & Co was nothing short of outstanding and I really appreciate that.

We all hear, feel, taste, and touch things differently -- that is what makes us human.

Fortunately for us -- we also have a lot of products out there and the freedom to choose the one that works best for us.




Tom King said:
I received LVC’s unit back. When I saw this thread I tested it immediately assuming something MUST be wrong with it based on his assessment that it was a “boom box”.

The results were that the DSP was functioning properly, the firmware was correct , presets were working properly and it sounded exactly the same as a known working unit which has been calibrated to our +/- 2b spec from 70Hz to 18kHz. I also put the cab in a variety of positions and experienced no “boominess”.

To be certain, I will have the amplitude response tested by a qualified person with professional measurement equipment and I’ll get back to this thread if it turns out any different.

FYI, all CLR units go through a rigorous testing protocol before they can leave the factory including power handling, amplitude response, rub and buzz, cosmetics, etc. Production is very consistent. The units we ship meet or exceed our spec.

As far as I’m concerned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if LVC has a preference that is not Atomic, I’m fine with that. I can say objectively, however, that CLR is quite flat – more so that some highly regarded and very expensive reference monitors. This is not subjective. If that’s not what you’re looking for and you’d prefer something to augment your source (modeler, program music, preamp, keyboard, etc) the CLR is probably not for you.

It should be noted that the overwhelming number of CLR owner's posting here at the Fractal Forums and elsewhere about the CLR (many of them trusted veterans) do not share the opinion of the original poster.

-TK
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These are the types of reviews I hope to see more of. Whether the CLR is perceived to be "Boomy" or not is obviously subjective, but what is important to me is that the OP tried both and was just as satisfied (or more) with an alternative solution (in this case passive Q12 + Matrix amp). When there are limited reviews of the various options, one can quickly get caught up in making a snap decision based on a few "Wow" reviews (ie. Active CLR). Based on reviews thus far, it's obvious that both Atomic and Matrix have some great products. At this point, the Matrix Q12a, with it's option of running in active or passive mode is an appealing feature to me, as I already own a decent SS amp that I use with my guitar cabs. I'm also very curious of other passive options, such as the Carvin 12" coaxial monitors (TRX12N). Thanks for the review LVC. ;)
 
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To me its kind of surprising how different opinions can be.

Could this mean that all the people who don't find the CLR boomy would find the Q12A as lacking bass?
 
axel said:
Whether the CLR is "Boomy" or not is obviously subjective
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Please excuse a little semantic adjustment.
FRFR speakers are tested for performance against fixed standards of theoretical optimal performance.
The CLR meets those standards better than any other speaker in its price range and (in my opinion) better than speakers I have tested it against that cost three and four times as much.

Whether the CLR is "boomy" or not is not subjective.

Whether any given user perceives the CLR as "boomy" depending on any combination of a long list of environmental, psychological, neurological, and sound knowledge issues is where the subjectivity comes in.
 
I shot a video of GT1000FX with Q12 at Axe-Fest 2012. As I remember it had a very pleasing tone but it was not flat, had more mid range. It was very guitar cab like tone with a tweeter.

Saying that a tradition guitar cab has a low and high cuts. Highs added back with the tweeter, but what about the subs?

Could that be, that CLR being linear produces lower frequencies, so actually you hear the "booming" subs, but the Q12 conveniently cuts them out?

So actually both sounds great You just have to make sure you cut your lows with CLR, since it's flat?

wondering

EDITED: they weren't Q12. They were CFR12
 
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scotts said:
Please excuse a little semantic adjustment.
FRFR speakers are tested for performance against fixed standards of theoretical optimal performance.
The CLR meets those standards better than any other speaker in its price range and (in my opinion) better than speakers I have tested it against that cost three and four times as much.

Whether the CLR is "boomy" or not is not subjective.

Whether any given user perceives the CLR as "boomy" depending on any combination of a long list of environmental, psychological, neurological, and sound knowledge issues is where the subjectivity comes in.
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You are excused, and thanks for catching that. Added "perceived to be". ;)
 
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levipeto said:
I shot a video of GT1000FX with Q12 at Axe-Fest 2012. As I remember it had a very pleasing tone but it was not flat, had more mid range. It was very guitar cab like tone with a tweeter.

Saying that a tradition guitar cab has a low and high cut. Highs added back with the tweeter, but what about the subs?

Could that be, that CLR being linear produces lower frequencies, so actually you hear the "booming" subs, but the Q12 conveniently cuts them out?

So actually both sounds great You just have to make sure you cut your lows with CLR, since it's flat?

wondering
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I was at Axe-Fest West and played through that setup personally and felt the same way.
 
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Of course this video is not optimal for justice, but you can hear the matrix set up sound real good, but very different from the rest of the FRFR speakers. The rest of the FRFR speakers were pretty similar to each other.

Matrix at 1:12

 
levipeto said:
Could that be, that CLR being linear produces lower frequencies, so actually you hear the "booming" subs, but the Q12 conveniently cuts them out?

So actually both sounds great You just have to make sure you cut your lows with CLR, since it's flat?

wondering


EDITED: the video had CFR12
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This is technical discussion above my pay grade -- but why would I buy something for guitar if after I get it -- I have to adjust highs/lows etc etc etc to make it sound like a guitar cabinet?

why not buy something that works better with your guitar/modeler and gets you closer to a guitar/cab tone right out of the box?

Just say'n
 
LVC said:
This is technical discussion above my pay grade -- but why would I buy something for guitar if after I get it -- I have to adjust highs/lows etc etc etc to make it sound like a guitar cabinet?

why not buy something that works better with your guitar/modeler and gets you closer to a guitar/cab tone right out of the box?

Just say'n
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Beacuse I
- can use the same presets I used in the studio
- hear that in the monitor what is in FOH
- when I share presets it would be useful for others
 
levipeto said:
I am about to buy amps and speakers and these threads confuse me a lot! lol
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dude -- I just want to turn the damn thing on and play .... LOL

Great stuff!!!

I have learned a lot reading this forum. Now if I can only remember the chord changes to Mustang Sally for my gig tomorrow night.
eek.gif
 
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