When tone matching doesn't work...

ML SOUND LAB

ML SOUND LAB

Cab Pack Wizard
Vendor
So as you might know I've been matching tones for years. I keep getting many questions about it simply stating that "match EQ doesn't work" etc. To keep it short I'll say this: driven tones are matchable but the cleaner the tones get the harder it will be to match them. And I'm sorry to say this but CLEAN TONES CANNOT BE MATCHED! Ofcourse it's possible to do the process but you can't match EQ a humbucker to sound like a single coil and expect them to sound identical; just like you can't match EQ Pavarotti to sound like Axl Rose.

Here's a good example I've been working on. Song is: Reef - Place Your Hands


That's an amazing tone right there. Really blows me away. What really made me interested was the fact that those guitars are not doubled so basically if I was gigging as the only guitarist I could have that kind of a stereo tone live. It's a clean Fender amp on the left and a dirty Marshall amp on the right and it's just one guitar take. So how do I get this tone?

Although that guy is playing a 70s Les Paul in that video... that's a Fender neck position tone for sure right? I'd say it's a Stratocaster neck position but on a live video that guitarist was playing with a Telecaster in bridge position. Well he didn't sound like that live so I'm going to ignore that. I don't own a Stratocaster right now so I've been trying to get this tone with my Telecaster. It's impossible. So this tone matching process forces me to buy a Fender Stratocaster if I want this tone. :)

So to answer many personal messages, here's an example of where tone matching gets really tricky and I thought it would be good to share it to all yall! :)
 
Last edited:
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country." :(

Edit: I've tried to tone match a couple different tones including RHCP - Under the Bridge... with pretty good success. Haven't had one where I couldn't tone match a clean tone. How about an example where you say that a clean tone couldn't be matched?
 
I realized I left an important point out.

So how do we match tones like this? We try to get there without match EQ which might mean f.ex. getting a Stratocaster but ofcourse not every Strat will sound the same either. So... this kind of tone will be very tricky. When you get extremely close without match EQ you can do a smoothed out match EQ on top of that to get the EQ balance right but like I said, these tones are not about the spectrum response and therefore can't be captured well with EQ.
 
Edit: I've tried to tone match a couple different tones including RHCP - Under the Bridge... with pretty good success. Haven't had one where I couldn't tone match a clean tone. How about an example where you say that a clean tone couldn't be matched?
 
mortega76 said:
Edit: I've tried to tone match a couple different tones including RHCP - Under the Bridge... with pretty good success. Haven't had one where I couldn't tone match a clean tone. How about an example where you say that a clean tone couldn't be matched?
Click to expand...

Well that spanky attack on the left track here is surely impossible to do without a single coil pickup. And maybe will just work with a Strat neck pickup position. I'm not saying that it's impossible. It might also be that my tone matching standards are getting higher and higher... f.ex. the Kemper wasn't close enough for me. :)

My point is that those tones are based on interesting dynamics and match EQ can't match them.
 

Found this one... I'll give it a shot and see how it comes out. Will be using my Ibanez with stock pickups.
 
Perfectly accurate Tone Matching requires two matches: a pre-EQ and a post-EQ. MatchEQ and the Axe-Fx TMA block only do post-EQ. The only way to achieve the pre-EQ is to use the same type of guitar and amp (and any tone shaping that may be in front of the amp).

FWIW, my Debug build of the Axe-Fx II has two TMA blocks which allows me to do both pre- and post-EQ matches but you can only do this when matching an actual amp (for obvious reasons).

IOW, everything Clark said is true.
 
Totally agreed as well. I play clean/slightly dirty, and the differences are night and day. Tone matching will only go so far then.

Clark, have you tried the (seldom used) N+B on the tele with the tone rolled slightly back? Should get fairly ball-park with it....that doesn't seem TOO overly 'strat-y' to my ears lol
 
FractalAudio said:
Perfectly accurate Tone Matching requires two matches: a pre-EQ and a post-EQ. MatchEQ and the Axe-Fx TMA block only do post-EQ. The only way to achieve the pre-EQ is to use the same type of guitar and amp (and any tone shaping that may be in front of the amp).

FWIW, my Debug build of the Axe-Fx II has two TMA blocks which allows me to do both pre- and post-EQ matches but you can only do this when matching an actual amp (for obvious reasons).

IOW, everything Clark said is true.
Click to expand...

If only there was a way to post-pre-EQ recorded guitar tones. Cliff, you must already have an idea how to do that right? :D
 
jon said:
Totally agreed as well. I play clean/slightly dirty, and the differences are night and day. Tone matching will only go so far then.

Clark, have you tried the (seldom used) N+B on the tele with the tone rolled slightly back? Should get fairly ball-park with it....that doesn't seem TOO overly 'strat-y' to my ears lol
Click to expand...

There's something special going on in that clip that I can't really explain. Something in the presence area. It's like a juicy overdrive with zero distortion in the presence area. Almost like it has more gain in the middle frequencies and less gain in the treble/presence area. What I did was separate the left and right channels and match EQ them separately using my Baja Tele. Then blend the two tones together.

The real magic of that tone is the clean tone and driven tone blended together in a special way. I don't think you can achieve that with one amp and tone matching.
 


I had problems even looking for the download I uploaded... here's the clip and patch.
 

Attachments

  • Mo - Cleanish Drive.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 16
Hey! That's not bad at all but like I was saying it doesn't have that attack nor the same gain structure that it would have if it was a blended clean and dirty. Maybe if you blended a Bassman and JCM800 together and then made the match?

Still this is a good example of what I was talking about. It's not just the spectrum side of things in these situations.
 
Oh yes, strat in the neck that one :D I bet if I belt that out with my strat and the EJ clean tone I love so much on the axe (fender amp) it'd be smack on already.

Kev
 
What amp is the guitar player using?

EDIT: Clark you need to sell on of those pricy guitars you have and git your self a JVT 69...
 
When I saw Reef live (back in the mid 90s) the guitarist (I think he's called Kewn House or something) was using a Tele with the neck position Pickup only through a Matchless head and 2x12. The live sound was pretty AMAZING. Clean, full and just that right amount of "vintage" type breakup. On their second album he went for more Zeppelin like tones and used a Les Paul more often. I think I remember reading that he used a Tele tuned to Dropped D for the recording of "Place your Hands". Great band (even if the singer was a bit annoying)......
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom