Suggest an IEM system for me - Xvive upgrade

sprada

sprada

Experienced
Hey good people.

I'm looking to upgrade my XVIXVE U4.

Nothing really wrong with it, I guess, but I'm looking for a step up in sound quality.
I play mostly small shows, bar, clubs, with the occasional bigger stage gig.
I'm using Custom molded 64 audio IEM buds, so I'm good there.

The Xvive have actual been mostly stable (occasional drop, glitch etc., but nothing major).

I'm really not concerned with features, range, etc.

Mostly sound quality!!!
Price range would be 1000/1500 eur/usd.
I have looked at the Shure PSM300, Shure PSM900 and Sennheiser G4. What do you think?
Anything else I should be looking at?

Cheers.
 
Last edited:
sprada said:
What do you think?
Click to expand...
IMO, those entry level systems are about equally mediocre.

That said, I used the 300 for a few years, and it did the job.

The cheap dongles typically have much higher latency, not sure audio quality is any better, and reliability (as in no drop outs) is probably worse.
 
I don't think you'll hear much of a difference with the PSM series versus the Xvive (I have both). I would say, since you already have the molded ears you're over the biggest hurdle.

If you run stereo for your rig, I would look into getting a stereo In-ear system. That would definitely improve the playing experience.
 
vangrieg said:
But both PSM300 and G4 are stereo, aren’t they?
Click to expand...
Yes, I was comparing to the Xvive units (U4 and U45) which are mono.

-Mono- PSM300 vs a Xvive U4 would probably be imperceptible in quality. It's not like you're hearing in HD when you go with a shure of that level. However, If you go Stereo, it would be an improvement. Again, Not in terms of the fidelity of the audio, but again giving you a stereo field to place your tones and effects in.

Stereo sounds pretty cool if you get the option. And again, assuming that your tones and sounds are already in stereo. If you've been running a mono rig, and you use a stereo In ear system, you're feeding two mono feeds into your ears. Wouldn't be that much of a difference in your guitar tone. Could feasibly be an improvement for mixing the other instruments in your band for your stage sound.

If I ever get the chance to run Stereo ears, I do try to pan the instruments and musicians where they are on stage in relation to where I am on stage. (Bass player to my right, lead singer to my right etc,) even if my guitar tones are mono.
 
Yes, stereo is useful for sure.

But you need a lot of aux outputs on your mixer (well, not really a lot, but cheaper mixers like xair only have like 8 outputs). And wireless costs go up significantly as well (with even the entry level systems like the 300 you can have two mono mixes per transmitter, otherwise you must double the number. And as the number of wireless systems grows, you also start running into interference issues, so you may go into the territory of all these combiners and distributors and such, and in no time just your monitoring starts to cost as much as the rest of the bands equipment).

But it’s nice.
 
Consider the MiPro MI-58RT. I've been using it for a few years and it has been flawless.
Digital transmission gives you a little bit of latency (<2.2mS, not enough to bother me at all) but also full (20 Hz – 23 kHz) frequency response and enormous dynamic range that the analog units cannot match. I also quite like the Li-Ion batteries (although it does help to have a spare battery) in the compact and lightweight body pack receiver. MiPro now also has a slightly larger version that works with the Li-Ion or 2 standard AA batteries if you prefer that (MI-580R). The batteries are standard 18500 Li-ion cells, so they're easy to find.
 
The Sennheiser G4 systems are regularly used by pro touring groups and are fantastic. I'd go that route unless you're group has bought into the Shure ecosystem, in which case go with the best Shure units you can. Between PSM300 and the Senn G4 the G4 is a clear winner for sound quaility from my experience. I would not look at other semi-pro, consumer systems like MiPro, XVive, etc. With what you have spent on your customs, your fractal, etc - the Sennheiser or higher end Shure systems are more in line.
 
MiPro or Audio Tech ATW3255 (which is what I have).
I had a hard time deciding between the two, but went with AT because it has the widest frequency range available and slightly less latency compared to MiPro.
I never got a chance to try the MiPro, but I hear they are excellent.
 
KevinP said:
The Sennheiser G4 systems are regularly used by pro touring groups and are fantastic. I'd go that route unless you're group has bought into the Shure ecosystem, in which case go with the best Shure units you can. Between PSM300 and the Senn G4 the G4 is a clear winner for sound quaility from my experience. I would not look at other semi-pro, consumer systems like MiPro, XVive, etc. With what you have spent on your customs, your fractal, etc - the Sennheiser or higher end Shure systems are more in line.
Click to expand...
MiPro is not semi-pro. Their systems are used by touring FOH engineers to wirelessly tune a PA (using SMAART).
I can also verify that the Audio Tech audio quality is better than Senn G4 (I had them side by side). It's not dramatic, but AT was better.
 
BBN said:
MiPro or Audio Tech ATW3255 (which is what I have).
I had a hard time deciding between the two, but went with AT because it has the widest frequency range available and slightly less latency compared to MiPro.
I never got a chance to try the MiPro, but I hear they are excellent.
Click to expand...
Did a lot of research and I'm really leaning to either the MiPro MI-58RT or the Audio Tech ATW3255
The Mipro MI-909RT is weird. Costs way more than the MiPro MI-58RT and the specs don't look so good.
Maybe because it's an older system?
srooijens said:
Consider the MiPro MI-58RT. I've been using it for a few years and it has been flawless.
Digital transmission gives you a little bit of latency (<2.2mS, not enough to bother me at all) but also full (20 Hz – 23 kHz) frequency response and enormous dynamic range that the analog units cannot match. I also quite like the Li-Ion batteries (although it does help to have a spare battery) in the compact and lightweight body pack receiver. MiPro now also has a slightly larger version that works with the Li-Ion or 2 standard AA batteries if you prefer that (MI-580R). The batteries are standard 18500 Li-ion cells, so they're easy to find.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Do you have any experience with other systems?
If yes I wonder how they compare against the MiPro MI-58RT.
 
sprada said:
Did a lot of research and I'm really leaning to either the MiPro MI-58RT or the Audio Tech ATW3255
The Mipro MI-909RT is weird. Costs way more than the MiPro MI-58RT and the specs don't look so good.
Maybe because it's an older system?

Thanks. Do you have any experience with other systems?
If yes I wonder how they compare against the MiPro MI-58RT.
Click to expand...
The MI909 is their pro system. My best description is - it's harder to navigate the unit, but it is ROCK solid and has crystal clear audio.
I did not buy it, but I still kinda want one.
 
BBN said:
MiPro is not semi-pro. Their systems are used by touring FOH engineers to wirelessly tune a PA (using SMAART).
I can also verify that the Audio Tech audio quality is better than Senn G4 (I had them side by side). It's not dramatic, but AT was better.
Click to expand...
I've never heard of or scene any professional FOH engineers use them - have any references to share on that that I could research? if someone is looking for a system that is high quality and reliable, I'd go with the brands that pro's are using onstage. It takes only looking at any concert footage to see what the 2 most common brands are. Also maybe they have done some better stuff but most of the MiPro stuff I've seen operates in 5.8 or 2.4 GHz, which is not appropriate for pro touring use. OP stated he was looking for the best sound quality so my response is based on what I've had the experience with and what pro's I know and sound companies i've worked with on tour use.

As far as the AT sounding better than the G4, I'd be interested in seeing some reference material on the actual response of sending signals across the systems, the best systems would provide flat output of what is being sent across it, so if they are both doing that the sound quality shouldn't be different, albeit the noise could be. I've used various AT solutions, and the PSM300 systems, they will all work but the noise was more noticeable in my use of the AT and PSM300 than the Sennehiser and higher end Shure systems.
 
I have the Audio Technica 3000 series IEM, it is excellent 👍. On a $-per-frequency/channel basis, I don't know of anything better. Sounds good, works well, solid.
 
sprada said:
Thanks. Do you have any experience with other systems?
If yes I wonder how they compare against the MiPro MI-58RT.
Click to expand...
Yes, I've use the Sennheiser Evolutions throughout the generations (from original to G3) and the occasional Shure.

I seriously doubted if I should buy the MiPro because of the 5.8 Ghz band. I have always avoided anything on 2.4Ghz. It has been rock solid for years though and sounds noticable better than any analog system (compander, frequency limitations etc) I've ever used.

I also considered the mi-909 system but the higher latency concerned me. Not by itself, but because it would start adding up with the FM9 and digital wireless guitar system (I use a Shure QLX-D there but I also have a Sennheiser G3).
 
KevinP said:
I've never heard of or scene any professional FOH engineers use them - have any references to share on that that I could research? if someone is looking for a system that is high quality and reliable, I'd go with the brands that pro's are using onstage. It takes only looking at any concert footage to see what the 2 most common brands are. Also maybe they have done some better stuff but most of the MiPro stuff I've seen operates in 5.8 or 2.4 GHz, which is not appropriate for pro touring use. OP stated he was looking for the best sound quality so my response is based on what I've had the experience with and what pro's I know and sound companies i've worked with on tour use.

As far as the AT sounding better than the G4, I'd be interested in seeing some reference material on the actual response of sending signals across the systems, the best systems would provide flat output of what is being sent across it, so if they are both doing that the sound quality shouldn't be different, albeit the noise could be. I've used various AT solutions, and the PSM300 systems, they will all work but the noise was more noticeable in my use of the AT and PSM300 than the Sennehiser and higher end Shure systems.
Click to expand...
Do some reading on the MiPro MI909. I'm not here to sell you on it. If you want to dismiss it...hey, go ahead. But I've done a ton of research on all of the available systems, and I learned a lot about Mipro (which I originally dismissed).
It is not 2.4 or 5.8ghz, it's UHF. And no, I'm not going to name drop my friends that do FOH and/or monitors for major acts across the globe.
Tour guys that use them are using them for system tuning, because they have the most accurate audio. They are not using them for artists because you cannot network them together as easily as Senny/Shure, to deploy frequencies to all packs in each venue. Shure's software seems to be the favorite for that.

Here is google's info:
The Mipro MI-909
is a professional-grade, true digital wireless stereo in-ear monitor (IEM) system known for its 112 dBA dynamic range and secure 128-bit digital encryption. It is designed to provide high-fidelity audio with a frequency response of 20 Hz to 15 kHz, outperforming many traditional analog systems in clarity and transmission reliability.


I also wish there was reference material showing the freq response between AT and the G4. It didn't exist, so I had to do a side by side myself.
I have been using Sennheiser for 20 years. I was endorsed and got some of the first 'Evolution' series mics and IEMs when they came out. I say that just to let you know - I love Sennheiser and have a certain amount of loyalty to them. I still use a G4 mic system.
But in a side by side with the same ear buds - the ATW-3255 system was a touch clearer. That wasn't the only reason for my decision. The ATW systems are the only system that span the entire usable frequency range for the United States. Shure, Senny, and MiPro are all limited, and you must chose one of their frequency ranges. The ATW system covers them all. The Senny tech has barely evolved in the past 10 years. AudioTech took a major leap with their new series.
Will the Shure or Senny system still sound excellent, or course they will. I would still gladly use a Senny system...maybe I will again at some point. Being that this (forum) is a group that like to split hairs - I'm doing just that, for the sake of giving folks info to help in their decisions.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all for your insights.
Today is the deadline for me (ordering today to get it in time before next weekends gigs)
I'm goint to buy either the MiPro MI-58RT or the ATW-3255

As I see it...

MiPro MI-58RT pros:
Slightly cheaper, included charger and rechargeable battery, smaller transmitter, audio frequency range(20 Hz to 23 kHz) , 109 dBA dynamic range, lower noise, clearer/better sound due to being digital?*

ATW-3255 pros:
Looks better, better for touring due to RF stability (not really a concern for my local weekend band), better/almost no latency, warmer analog sound?*

*I don't know what IEM analog warm sound vs digital means in this context.
Maybe digital will reflect more accurately my sound and therefore might be seen, on some cases, as "harsher" and analog might be perceived as warmer due to some frequencies being tamed by the compander?

If that's the case I don't think really mind it. I see that as an opportunity to refine my sound.
But maybe analog IEMs do sound better. Don't know.
I hate I can try it before buying it.

The ATW-3255 system looks very appealing but I might go with the MiPro MI-58RT.
 
BBN said:
Do some reading on the MiPro MI909. I'm not here to sell you on it. If you want to dismiss it...hey, go ahead. But I've done a ton of research on all of the available systems, and I learned a lot about Mipro (which I originally dismissed).
It is not 2.4 or 5.8ghz, it's UHF. And no, I'm not going to name drop my friends that do FOH and/or monitors for major acts across the globe.
Tour guys that use them are using them for system tuning, because they have the most accurate audio. They are not using them for artists because you cannot network them together as easily as Senny/Shure, to deploy frequencies to all packs in each venue. Shure's software seems to be the favorite for that.

Here is google's info:
The Mipro MI-909
is a professional-grade, true digital wireless stereo in-ear monitor (IEM) system known for its 112 dBA dynamic range and secure 128-bit digital encryption. It is designed to provide high-fidelity audio with a frequency response of 20 Hz to 15 kHz, outperforming many traditional analog systems in clarity and transmission reliability.


I also wish there was reference material showing the freq response between AT and the G4. It didn't exist, so I had to do a side by side myself.
I have been using Sennheiser for 20 years. I was endorsed and got some of the first 'Evolution' series mics and IEMs when they came out. I say that just to let you know - I love Sennheiser and have a certain amount of loyalty to them. I still use a G4 mic system.
But in a side by side with the same ear buds - the ATW-3255 system was a touch clearer. That wasn't the only reason for my decision. The ATW systems are the only system that span the entire usable frequency range for the United States. Shure, Senny, and MiPro are all limited, and you must chose one of their frequency ranges. The ATW system covers them all. The Senny tech has barely evolved in the past 10 years. AudioTech took a major leap with their new series.
Will the Shure or Senny system still sound excellent, or course they will. I would still gladly use a Senny system...maybe I will again at some point. Being that this (forum) is a group that like to split hairs - I'm doing just that, for the sake of giving folks info to help in their decisions.
Click to expand...
Interesting, will read up a bit more. Unlikely I'll get the chance to play with them any time soon and am not in the market, but appreciate the response and info.
 
KevinP said:
Interesting, will read up a bit more. Unlikely I'll get the chance to play with them any time soon and am not in the market, but appreciate the response and info.
Click to expand...
Same. I would REALLY like to try the MiPro, but there are very few dealers in the US.
Friends who have them out on the road are rarely home, and there is very little chance to borrow.
If I could find a good deal on a used one, I'll probably buy it just for curiosity's sake.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom