Dialing OUT the digital Axe-Fx midrange

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francis said:
Well, maybe this will help the original poster understand the relatively dark sound of Fractal Audio Systems.

View attachment 155548

Also, it might be helpful to use Cliff's old tip (instead of using cab blocks) by slightly refining it.

For your convenience/try , I'll attach a pre-set block file. Just put it in the correct folder location, place 1 filter block, 1 GEQ block, and load these files from the library, and you're basically ready to go.

oh , and It might also be helpful to mix it with existing dynacab or legacy IR cab blocks.
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cliff said :

"Try this:
Make a patch with no cab block.
After the amp put a Filter block. Reset to make sure all parameters are at default values.
Set the type to Lowpass.
Set the Order to 4th.
Set the Freq to ~5000.
Set the High Cut Freq to ~5000.
Adjust the Freq and High Cut Freq to taste. For more aggressive tones increase both to 6000 or so. For warmer tones decrease both to 4000 or so.
Now, to add some "character" put a Graphic EQ or Parametric EQ block after (or before) the Filter block. Boost 125 Hz a little. Play around with some of the midrange and upper midrange bands to change the character of the tone. This is what I used:
31: 0.0
63 Hz: 0.6
125 Hz: 4.57
250 Hz: 0.25
500: 0.0
1K: -5.0
2K: -2.27
4K: 1.95
8K: -1.0
16K: -5.77
The reasoning behind this is that there is no such thing as a "flat" speaker. All speakers, even really expensive monitors have peaks and dips in the response. That's why they all sound different. The primary thing a guitar speaker does is roll off the highs aggressively at somewhere between 4K and 6K Hz. The Filter block replicates the rolloff but lets the natural response of the speaker come through. "
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That's an interesting approach, albeit a very cumbersome one and I honestly would just prefer to load an IR instead of EQ'ing one myself. But I appreciate you searching and suggesting Cliff's tip. :)
It's definitely interesting to see if the midrange boxy sound is still there. If not, then it comes from the cab block or the IRs, though I doubt that pretty much all IR's have the same problem.
 
drawn said:
should be easy to dial out if the user wants it.
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I think it is. For eg.: the recent remaster of thr SLO really makes it mid-forward in a kinda odd way. But guess what, I turned the Master down from 3 to 2, bumped the presence knob ever so slightly and voila! Maybe give that a go.

The Kemper and Axe are comprable in that they both try to be accurate. But they cannot be compared when it comes to dialling in tones. If a tube amp rig is a painting, the Kemper is like a photograph of a painting. But the Axe Fx gives you all the tools to do an indistinguishable re-creation of the painting itself but on an iPad or something. The WAY you dial the tone in may or may not be the same as the real amp rig because of multiple factors.
 
FractalAudio said:
Boxy midrange is usually an indication of the MV being too high.

Take an IR of your cabinet/mic and use that to compare between your amp and the Axe-Fx. Then adjust the MV until the sounds are the same.
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So does every amp have the MV set very high when you frst load it up?
 
Someone is currently posting on another well known forum about their high gain struggles with the Kemper 😁

I’ve learned to I pick the gear that is the right tool for me for the application I have in mind. Eventually the law of diminishing returns comes into play.

For example, I’ve never been able to get the Axe FX reverbs or rotaries to sound how I want. Most likely user error but I got tired of wasting time tweaking rather than playing. So I gave up and bought a second hand Meris MercuryX and a second Lex v2 - now I am much happier.

I can understand that the OP has made a significant investment in the Axe and wants to get it to work for them but at some point, I think they perhaps need to face the fact that it isn’t the right tool for them in the specific high gain scenario they describe (note carefully that I am not saying that the Axe isn’t for them - full stop). If they can’t get it to work for them, with all their experience and expertise, it seems unlikely that there will be a magic bullet that they haven’t tried. Just use the Axe for what works for you and use something else for high gain.

It isn’t an all or nothing situation. Many players, performers, and studios have gear of all types from multiple manufacturers to get the sounds in their heads. And as you run a studio, can’t gear purchases be written off as business expense?

Pick the gear (or combination of gear) that inspires you and gives you the results you want.

IMHO, YMMV etc.
 
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drawn said:
To be fair, from around 20 posts in this thread, maybe only 2 have really tried to stay on-topic and help with the issue. The others are either trolling, don't hear what I'm talking about (do they even have a decent monitoring at all?
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not sure how suggesting OP directly compare using model matched physical amps he has readily available, is unfair / trolling
 
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drawn said:
I'm just sick of people like you who come in, make off-topic replies ("I like my Axe-Fx", "maybe try EQ", "use studio monitors", "try other pickups") and think they have helped in some way. Some dads who like to play the guitar from time to time can rarely help someone who works in the studio day in day out. They have their expert knowledge in other fields, sure, but MOST LIKELY not in the studio/recording/mixing field. So why bother with those basic tips? As you can see, because it happened here as well, it just clutters up the thread, making it really hard to read and follow.

To be fair, from around 20 posts in this thread, maybe only 2 have really tried to stay on-topic and help with the issue. The others are either trolling, don't hear what I'm talking about (do they even have a decent monitoring at all?!) or just don't care because they don't work in a studio....
It's fine if they don't hear it or don't care, but why post at all? They should be busy enjoying their "awesome tone on their awesome Axe-Fx"...................
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Dude, stop being a jerk. If anyone is making this forum hostile it is you. Now to the point - you are not the only one reading this forum. If you want personal guidance, pay for it. Otherwise you will get basic ideas that are appropriate for anyone who might be getting similar problems. Next, we have no idea if you have actually done the items that are mentioned. I can get mid range honk out of a signal in 30 seconds or less (less if in live setting). Adjust the presence and mid. Next, Kemper just released new devices that are supposed to fix the fact that they make one sample and are supposed to make the device respond like an amp. Novel idea! Axe has been doing that. Get to know the Axe.
 
drawn said:
I'm just sick of people like you who come in, make off-topic replies ("I like my Axe-Fx", "maybe try EQ", "use studio monitors", "try other pickups") and think they have helped in some way. Some dads who like to play the guitar from time to time can rarely help someone who works in the studio day in day out. They have their expert knowledge in other fields, sure, but MOST LIKELY not in the studio/recording/mixing field. So why bother with those basic tips? As you can see, because it happened here as well, it just clutters up the thread, making it really hard to read and follow.

To be fair, from around 20 posts in this thread, maybe only 2 have really tried to stay on-topic and help with the issue. The others are either trolling, don't hear what I'm talking about (do they even have a decent monitoring at all?!) or just don't care because they don't work in a studio....
It's fine if they don't hear it or don't care, but why post at all? They should be busy enjoying their "awesome tone on their awesome Axe-Fx"...................
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I'm glad you are getting help, truly, but you need to put down the Red Bull and perhaps reflect on what I said.

I said none of the things you are quoting. I said you were making odd choices for someone looking for help, because condescension isn't the best method to get help - and yet people helped you. This isn't customer support, no one owes you anything, this is a forum. We try to be nice to each other here.

What studio do you work in? I am genuinely curious.
 
Hey @drawn did you try any of the high gain Gift of Tone presets? There are some pretty established folks sharing their touring presets - and several flavors of high gain, from djent to hard rock.

If all of those sound bad to you, that would be telling as to your reproduction environment, but I bet they all won't.
 
I have struggled with the same issue myself. It has taken me years to dial in the axe to sound like I'm looking for. I've tried numerous amps, IR's, EQ's etc to get it to sound right and it boiled down to a couple of things for me and my playing style. I found the FAS 61610 didn't have the same Mid bump that the 6505 or 5150 did and that the FAS Stealth didn't have as much lower mid bump as the 5153's. Maybe try those amps? IR's were the most crucial for me and I found love in the Ownhammer rockbox 1999 V-30 pack, modern mix. To my ears they are a little more upper mid focused than lower mid, but in a good way. I have also played with the speaker impedance curves and found the FAS UK curve was a bit more mid scooped.
Master volume is crucial in these type of amps so maybe try turning down the PV amps to below 2 for a little less mid bump.
The last thing that I will mess with is the Negative Feedback knob in the power amp section of the amp block. Rectos don't have any negative feedback in their circuits and they are known for being mid scooped, with the 5150 style amps they are set to 6.2 or something like that, try turning the knob all the way up and down and see if you get what you are looking for in there too.
I hope this helps.
 
You complain about people adding noise to the conversation yet you keep responding to their nonsense with your own nonsense. Cool. Looks like the comments were removed lol

A helpful post from the last time you had this issue 5 years ago
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...t-frequencies-metal-tones.167193/post-2008569


Now for some actual helpful information, albeit from a bedroom metalhead: Have you adjusted the input trim? Perhaps your pickups are really hot and it's adding some nasty mid-range. Tweaked this for the first time this weekend and had dramatic results. I was using the REVV Purple 2 amp with the Recto straight dynacab with the dynamic 1 mic. I think I was using the preamp emulation as well. I usually use modern or FET II.
 
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jwa174900 said:
I have struggled with the same issue myself. It has taken me years to dial in the axe to sound like I'm looking for. I've tried numerous amps, IR's, EQ's etc to get it to sound right and it boiled down to a couple of things for me and my playing style. I found the FAS 61610 didn't have the same Mid bump that the 6505 or 5150 did and that the FAS Stealth didn't have as much lower mid bump as the 5153's. Maybe try those amps? IR's were the most crucial for me and I found love in the Ownhammer rockbox 1999 V-30 pack, modern mix. To my ears they are a little more upper mid focused than lower mid, but in a good way. I have also played with the speaker impedance curves and found the FAS UK curve was a bit more mid scooped.
Master volume is crucial in these type of amps so maybe try turning down the PV amps to below 2 for a little less mid bump.
The last thing that I will mess with is the Negative Feedback knob in the power amp section of the amp block. Rectos don't have any negative feedback in their circuits and they are known for being mid scooped, with the 5150 style amps they are set to 6.2 or something like that, try turning the knob all the way up and down and see if you get what you are looking for in there too.
I hope this helps.
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THANK YOU for being one of the very few people here who actually are trying to help with knowledge, expertise and experience. I will give your suggestions a shot. Honestly, thank you so much.
 
drawn said:
THANK YOU for being one of the very few people here who actually are trying to help with knowledge, expertise and experience. I will give your suggestions a shot. Honestly, thank you so much.
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Sure I don't know if any of these things will help. I thought of a couple others too.
The dyna cabs seem to be scooped more to my ears.
In the output EQ of the amp block you can set that to pre or post, maybe switch to pre and try and scoop out some sound from there, it seems to not be near as drastic in the pre setting. I believe the pre is before the power amp and post is just post the power amp.
The last I thought of was in the cab block preamp page. If you turn on the preamp to one of the settings, I like the exciter, then the BMT controls will engage in that section and you can sculpt in there as well.
I don't know how much expertise I have in any of this but these are places I have tweaked.
When I am trying to dial in a tone I always use a reference and I always use the same IR when comparing that way its apples to apples. The video in the original post was using two different IR's. I found the Legacy IR's in the axefx are darker and I think that is to go for more of a "live" sound vs a recording tone. That's just my take on them.
 
jwa174900 said:
Sure I don't know if any of these things will help. I thought of a couple others too.
The dyna cabs seem to be scooped more to my ears.
In the output EQ of the amp block you can set that to pre or post, maybe switch to pre and try and scoop out some sound from there, it seems to not be near as drastic in the pre setting. I believe the pre is before the power amp and post is just post the power amp.
The last I thought of was in the cab block preamp page. If you turn on the preamp to one of the settings, I like the exciter, then the BMT controls will engage in that section and you can sculpt in there as well.
I don't know how much expertise I have in any of this but these are places I have tweaked.
When I am trying to dial in a tone I always use a reference and I always use the same IR when comparing that way its apples to apples. The video in the original post was using two different IR's. I found the Legacy IR's in the axefx are darker and I think that is to go for more of a "live" sound vs a recording tone. That's just my take on them.
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This is great stuff! Thank you for sharing.
I went into the Cab block and in the Tone section, I dialed out about 5 db of the "MID" frequencies, which helped a lot, but I like the Negative Feedback reduction WAY more. Reducing it keeps the midrange intact while removing a lot of the honk and getting rid of the midrange-blanket that masks the high end. Very, very good tip here!
 
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