FM9 Firmware Version 6.00 public beta (1)

[dsouza]

Wait if my custom presets work perfectly on 5.1 if I upgrade to 6.x will I still have to make modifications to the reverbs even if I don't resave my custom presets? Or is that only if I resave them?

Just curious whether some of these upgrades are global and take effect regardless of whether one re-saves their presets or not?

 

[strabes]

You only need to use level if the problem is a lower level of reverb and you're already running at 100% mix in parallel. Input gain shouldn't factor in to anything. Just move the level up to make it what it was before.

The downside of using the level parameter is that it affects the reverb tails when switching to a channel that has a lower level. The input gain parameter doesn't have this behavior because it's like a bus send so it allows the tails to ring out naturally, which is why I have been using it for years instead of the level parameter on parallel reverbs and delays.

But on 6.00 the wet level is so much lower on Nimbostratus that several of my parallel reverb settings need to have the input gain maxed at 100%, and the wet increased further with the level parameter. But because of this the reverb tails are affected when I switch to a channel with a lower level, whereas before with the 5.01 wet/dry mix I could seamlessly switch between reverb channels because they were all at level 0, with just different settings on the input gain. This is going to severely impact my live workflow. I love this product and can understand changing the sound of amps or drives in pursuit of greater accuracy, but I do not understand this decision.

Edit: I thought of a workaround: Max the level parameter on all reverb channels to +20dB and reduce the input gain parameter to compensate. Will experiment with this and report back.

 

[PSea]

The downside of using the level parameter is that it affects the reverb tails when switching to a channel that has a lower level. The input gain parameter doesn't have this behavior because it's like a bus send so it allows the tails to ring out naturally, which is why I have been using it for years instead of the level parameter on parallel reverbs and delays.

But on 6.00 the wet level is so much lower on Nimbostratus that several of my parallel reverb settings need to have the input gain maxed at 100%, and the wet increased further with the level parameter. But because of this the reverb tails are affected when I switch to a channel with a lower level, whereas before with the 5.01 wet/dry mix I could seamlessly switch between reverb channels because they were all at level 0, with just different settings on the input gain. This is going to severely impact my live workflow. I love this product and can understand changing the sound of amps or drives in pursuit of greater accuracy, but I do not understand this decision.

this sounds like what neal schion's patch taught us. ...using the input gain (attached to a pedal for control)

 

[millman]

Is it safe to assume you use it for some really ambient, perhaps washy, sounds? That is the main time I use Nimbostrarus. However, in that scenario I don’t use it in isolation. I’ll use a parallel Stereo Mind Guy delay, then a Plex Verb in series at 50% mix, followed by the Nimbostratus in parallel at a 10 second decay.

 

[strabes]

My workaround for the reduced reverb wet level in this firmware seems to be working fine, but only on parallel reverbs since the level parameter controls the wet and dry output of the block so it can't be used on series reverbs.

The workaround is: Max the level parameter to 20dB on all channels and reduce the input gain parameter to compensate. Now I can again seamlessly switch between reverb channels with different input gain settings without affecting the tails. Still don't understand the decision to reduce the reverb wet levels, it just made a bunch of work for me as I have to go through presets and change them all to be the same as before.

Is it safe to assume you use it for some really ambient, perhaps washy, sounds? That is the main time I use Nimbostrarus. However, in that scenario I don’t use it in isolation. I’ll use a parallel Stereo Mind Guy delay, then a Plex Verb in series at 50% mix, followed by the Nimbostratus in parallel at a 10 second decay.

It depends on the sound. Sometimes I do combine it with other blocks but in general I need to be able to switch between channels while affecting the tails as little as possible.

 

[millman]

It depends on the sound. Sometimes I do combine it with other blocks but in general I need to be able to switch between channels while affecting the tails as little as possible.

Yeah, all my parallel blocks are at 0.0 dB Level so there are no level changes. In the case of my ambients I find only need Input Gain at 55.9% since I'm stacking it with Plex Verb. I don't like such a heavy verb for non-ambient sounds. So, I save the Nimbostratus verb for those on one channel and switch to a Plate reverb for my other channels. I'm loving Gold Plate for any non-ambient Scenes/Presets.

 

[dsouza]

This is scary. I use mostly custom presets designed on 5.1 or lower. That means even if I adjust a custom preset to say increase the base a bit more if I do a gig and resave it it will resave all the gapless switching and new reverb mechanisms thereby making the song possibly sound aweful and that would be a sudden shock if it happened while recording or performing live. That means for those who use custom presets it may be better to stay on 5.1 unless your willing to change them all. For gapless switching it's easy gapless ALL trails ON. But for reverb changes it would require reprogramming. If you have 200 custom presets that's a bitch. I would rather wait for the custom preset designers to rewrite all their presets in the future for the final FM9 supported upgrade, whether it's 6.x or 20.x. Reason I say this is because the preset creators know exactly why they designed the sound the way they did and what effects they used and what settings they chose. Best to leave it up to them to support the new FW upgrades down the road. For now I'm happy to stay on my reliable 5.1.

 

[millman]

My workaround for the reduced reverb wet level in this firmware seems to be working fine, but only on parallel reverbs since the level parameter controls the wet and dry output of the block:

I maxed the level parameter to 20dB on all channels and reduced the input gain parameter to compensate. Now I can again seamlessly switch between reverb channels without affecting the tails. Still don't understand the decision to reduce the reverb levels, it just made a bunch of work for me as I have to go through presets and change them all to be the same as before.


It depends on the sound. Sometimes I do combine it with other blocks but in general I need to be able to switch between channels while affecting the tails as little as possible.

One more thing. Have you tried tweaking the Advanced Parameters when running the reverb in parallel if you want it to be "bigger"? Try leaving Level at 0 dB and increasing: Early Level, Early Diffusion, Early Diff Time, Mic Spacing, Input Diffusion (I find this one in particular along with Early Level have a huge impact), and Input Diffusion Time.

 

[strabes]

One more thing. Have you tried tweaking the Advanced Parameters when running the reverb in parallel if you want it to be "bigger"? Try leaving Level at 0 dB and increasing: Early Level, Early Diffusion, Early Diff Time, Mic Spacing, Input Diffusion (I find this one in particular along with Early Level have a huge impact), and Input Diffusion Time.

oh yeah trust me I've spent a lot of time with the reverb block haha

 

[unix-guy]

This is scary. I use mostly custom presets designed on 5.1 or lower. That means even if I adjust a custom preset to say increase the base a bit more if I do a gig and resave it it will resave all the gapless switching and new reverb mechanisms thereby making the song possibly sound aweful and that would be a sudden shock if it happened while recording or performing live. That means for those who use custom presets it may be better to stay on 5.1 unless your willing to change them all. For gapless switching it's easy gapless ALL trails ON. But for reverb changes it would require reprogramming. If you have 200 custom presets that's a bitch. I would rather wait for the custom preset designers to rewrite all their presets in the future for the final FM9 supported upgrade, whether it's 6.x or 20.x. Reason I say this is because the preset creators know exactly why they designed the sound the way they did and what effects they used and what settings they chose. Best to leave it up to them to support the new FW upgrades down the road. For now I'm happy to stay on my reliable 5.1. Did I tell you how much I dig the gapless switching though? DAMN. You can't always have what you want..... you can't always have what you want... but you can have what you need.

The changes in sound are going to happen as soon as you start running the new firmware. It has nothing to do with saving the presets.

Saving the presets updates the format to allow for gapless preset changes.

 

[DLC86]

The workaround is: Max the level parameter to 20dB on all channels and reduce the input gain parameter to compensate. Now I can again seamlessly switch between reverb channels without affecting the tails. Still don't understand the decision to reduce the reverb wet levels, it just made a bunch of work for me as I have to go through presets and change them all to be the same as before.

Can't you just increase early level and late level? You should achieve the same thing without affecting the dry level

 

[millman]

oh yeah trust me I've spent a lot of time with the reverb block haha

It's crazy to me that you can't solve it with those changes. That amount of reverb I find overwhelming outside of the previously mentioned ambient Scenes. I'm glad you have found a passable workaround for now at least.

 

[strabes]

It's crazy to me that you can't solve it with those changes. That amount of reverb I find overwhelming outside of the previously mentioned ambient Scenes. I'm glad you have found a passable workaround for now at least.

The workaround I posted above seems to be working fine.

 

[dicXjonesify]

oh yeah trust me I've spent a lot of time with the reverb block haha

The non-pdubbers have no idea how much we tweak on wet effects hahaha.

 

[millman]

The non-pdubbers have no idea how much we tweak on wet effects hahaha.

I'm a pdubber. However, I don't like overly wet sounds. Heavily ambient sounds don't make it more "heavenly sounding". It is only based on an assumption of what a "heavenly sound" is... I run most of my sounds quite dry unless I am targeting a specific washy sound. Either a POG Lead or ambient swells. I get so many compliments on my sound. When I hear drenched pdub I die a little inside...

 

[dicXjonesify]

I'm a pdubber. However, I don't like overly wet sounds. Heavily ambient sounds don't make it more "heavenly sounding". It is only based on an assumption of what a "heavenly sound" is... I run most of my sounds quite dry unless I am targeting a specific washy sound. Either a POG Lead or ambient swells. I get so many compliments on my sound. When I hear drenched pdub I die a little inside...

Fair enough

 

[Jtroop]

I'm a pdubber. However, I don't like overly wet sounds. Heavily ambient sounds don't make it more "heavenly sounding". It is only based on an assumption of what a "heavenly sound" is... I run most of my sounds quite dry unless I am targeting a specific washy sound. Either a POG Lead or ambient swells. I get so many compliments on my sound. When I hear drenched pdub I die a little inside...

X2. When I pdub, I use more wet on swells and certain ambient parts. When I kick on some OD or dist, I want very little reverb and usually no delay. For leads, I bump the level up a bit and add wet effects to taste.

 

[iaresee]

The downside of using the level parameter is that it affects the reverb tails when switching to a channel that has a lower level. The input gain parameter doesn't have this behavior because it's like a bus send so it allows the tails to ring out naturally, which is why I have been using it for years instead of the level parameter on parallel reverbs and delays.

Sometimes I do combine it with other blocks but in general I need to be able to switch between channels while affecting the tails as little as possible.

I didn't consider the case where you'd be switching reverbs, sorry! That makes the use of input gain make sense.

Nice job finding a way around it. I don't really ever switch reverbs, but you have me thinking of trying it with this approach now...

 

[Joshua_L]

This is scary. I use mostly custom presets designed on 5.1 or lower. That means even if I adjust a custom preset to say increase the base a bit more if I do a gig and resave it it will resave all the gapless switching and new reverb mechanisms thereby making the song possibly sound aweful and that would be a sudden shock if it happened while recording or performing live. That means for those who use custom presets it may be better to stay on 5.1 unless your willing to change them all. For gapless switching it's easy gapless ALL trails ON. But for reverb changes it would require reprogramming. If you have 200 custom presets that's a bitch. I would rather wait for the custom preset designers to rewrite all their presets in the future for the final FM9 supported upgrade, whether it's 6.x or 20.x. Reason I say this is because the preset creators know exactly why they designed the sound the way they did and what effects they used and what settings they chose. Best to leave it up to them to support the new FW upgrades down the road. For now I'm happy to stay on my reliable 5.1. Did I tell you how much I dig the gapless switching though? DAMN. You can't always have what you want..... you can't always have what you want... but you can have what you need.

just for my own information : who created your custom presets ?Might be interested. thanxs

 

[geetarplayer]

...

Edit: I thought of a workaround: Max the level parameter on all reverb channels to +20dB and reduce the input gain parameter to compensate. Will experiment with this and report back.

I tried this. At times I need huge reverb, and when I tried to go for that with this method, I start to hear a pre-delay. (Pre-delay is set to 0 ms).

I like this method of adjusting input gain instead of level and I'll probably switch to that method no matter what. But I agree, the mix is lower in this beta. I for one would like to have it back the way it was, as it's just not getting me enough as it is without starting to sound strange with that pre-delay slap back.