Stereo IEM

[Claude M]

Ok here's a good one I can't solve!

I've been playing live for over 4000+ gigs. I've used IEM for the last 15 years. I have a Shure PSM 200 which is awesome as it has 2 Channels - 2 ins and 2 outs.
I play in a trio (drummer on an electronic kit, me on electric guitar and a lead singer) and we use backing tracks (which I make) that have Bass guitar on it plus whatever other instruments are needed. In the past, Ive had the AXE FX II, then moved to the AX8 and now the FM9. I've always run my IEM the same. I take a line out of Aux 1 of our mixing desk straight into Channel 1 on my PSM 200 and I can dial into my IEM, whatever I want from the mixing desk (Click track, vocals etc - no guitar). I normally run from the FM9, Output 1 Left to FOH (using Copy L/R as the PA is Mono) and out of Output 2 LEFT to my FRFR, Copy L/R. I also run out of Output 2 RIGHT into Channel 2 of my PSM 200 and that way, I have a different EQ on Output 2 on the FM9 to suit my FRFR and IEM - and also complete control of my guitar volume from Channel 2 of my PSM 200. I also prefer the pure signal of my guitar direct from the FM9, versus coming from the mixing desk via an Aux feed. On some occasions when the gig is small, I don't bring my FRFR and I simply use the IEM from the FM9.

My question (after this long story, sorry) is - how do you run Stereo IEM because the way I'm running things, my IEM is Mono? Guitar is coming from Output 2 RIGHT (Mono) to my PSM 200. I heard an interview with Marco Sfogli who said that he runs Mono from his FM9 to FOH but Stereo to his IEM. I understand that my preset is Stereo because of stereo delays or stereo cabs etc, but how do you get a stereo signal to your IEM if I'm running one lead out of my FM9? If I run Output 2 from the FM9 Left and Right out into Channel 1 and 2 of my PSM 200, then I'll achieve a stereo in-ear mix, but then I have no channels left on the PSM 200 to dial in the rest of the band from the desk Aux and I need to hear the backing tracks etc.

Stereo means Left and Right correct? I can't get Left and Right out of the FM9 into my IEM. If I use a small 2 channel mixing desk for myself and run Output 2 L/R out into 2 channels on my mixing desk, I stiil have to take an OUT (Left or Right) from that mixing desk to my PSM 200. I can only take Left or Right out of that mixing desk to Channel 1 on my PSM because I need the other Channel on my PSM to have an Aux feed from our FOH mixing desk? Also, if I run a TRS to TRS cable from the headphone out of the FM9 into my PSM, it will be Mono because the ins of the PSM are mono. I can't run out of the headphones out of the FM9 direct to my Shure IEM headphones, because then I don't have freedom onstage to move as I'm attached to my FM9.

Sorry - I'm a very "wordy" person and I'm over explaining myself, but I have to try and let you understand my setup so someone could reply, having all my information! Maybe I should've simply asked "How do I achieve a Stereo IEM mix?"

Hopefully I've made sense!

 

[chris]

The problem is the IEM has 2 inputs and you’re using one for the mixer aux.

Stereo means “2 things”, and you only have one input for the FM9, so one input means not stereo.

You need to use the 2 inputs on IEM for left and right from the FM9 for stereo.

A small mixer can sub mix the aux send and the left and right from the FM9, then left and right out of the mixer to your IEM.

 

[Claude M]

The problem is the IEM has 2 inputs and you’re using one for the mixer aux.

Stereo means “2 things”, and you only have one input for the FM9, so one input means not stereo.

You need to use the 2 inputs on IEM for left and right from the FM9 for stereo.

A small mixer can sub mix the aux send and the left and right from the FM9, then left and right out of the mixer to your IEM.

Hey Chris!

Oh I see what you say! Let me wrap my head around this......
I get myself a small 4 channel mixing desk. I run L/R out of Output 2 from the FM9 (Stereo) into Channel 1 and 2 on my mixing desk. The I take L/R out of my mixing desk into my PSM 200 and I have Stereo IEM - this I understand completely!

So then do I take Aux 1 from the band's Mixing desk into Channel 3 of my Mixing desk and control everything from Channel 3 of my mixing desk?

 

[chris]

Hey Chris!

Oh I see what you say! Let me wrap my head around this......
I get myself a small 4 channel mixing desk. I run L/R out of Output 2 from the FM9 (Stereo) into Channel 1 and 2 on my mixing desk. The I take L/R out of my mixing desk into my PSM 200 and I have Stereo IEM - this I understand completely!

So then do I take Aux 1 from the band's Mixing desk into Channel 3 of my Mixing desk and control everything from Channel 3 of my mixing desk?

Yes. You’re mixing things with the mixer.

Note than many mixers have dedicated stereo channels with 1/4” cables if that works for you. So just one channel already panned. Otherwise 2 XLR into 2 channels and you pan each.

 

[Claude M]

Yes. You’re mixing things with the mixer.

Note than many mixers have dedicated stereo channels with 1/4” cables if that works for you. So just one channel already panned. Otherwise 2 XLR into 2 channels and you pan each.

Ok awesome as usual.
So then, would I just run Left Out from Output 3 of the FM9 to my FRFR?

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

I am using the PSM300. Not sure the difference. I run the Output 1 stereo 1/4 jacks out of the Af3 into the PSM. In each preset, I have output 1 and output 2 blocks. I send output 2 to front of house. I add input 2 block to each preset, set to left input only, and route it in each preset to output 1 only. I take the xlr send from the monitor board with my monitor mix into input 2 left. Now I control the volume of the monitor send with Input 2s level control. Make sure you do not put your guitar in your monitor mix coming from the sound guy. that way you have control over how loud you are on the fly by turning the Input 2 level up or down.

 

[Claude M]

I am using the PSM300. Not sure the difference. I run the Output 1 stereo 1/4 jacks into the PSM. In each preset, I have output 1 and output 2 blocks. I send output 2 to front of house. I add input 2 block, set to left input only, and route it to output 1 only. I take the xlr send from the monitor board with my monitor mix into input 2 left. and set it to copy left to right. Now I control the volume of the monitor send with Input 2s level control. Make sure you do not put your guitar in your monitor mix. that way you have control over how loud you are on the fly.

I'm not sure my brain can comprehend!
Great explanation, thx. It's interesting to hear what people are doing.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

I am loading up for a gig tonight. I will take some axe-edit screen shots when I get a chance. It is easier than it sounds. haha
Basically I am sending my monitor mix through the af3 instead if straight into the PSM. That way I have more control without needing the sound guy to here myself. You still need his help to adjust the overall monitor mix he is sending, unless they offer an app to control your own mix. This is obviously the best case senario.

 

[Claude M]

I control everything myself to, as the PSM 200 has two channels, each with their own volume control. So out of the FM9 into Channel 1 and then I control my own volume. Out of Mixing desk Aux 1 to Channel 2 of the PSM. Then I control how much of everything I want from in my ears, from each band members channel via Aux 1 on their channel strip.
Forgot to mention - the reason I have all this control is because I mix from stage, so I have the desk next to me.

What you're saying is correct when you have an independent FOH guy standing 50 feet from you - he's controlling everything. I'm curious to see what you do. Thx to everyone for their help here - I love this forum.

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

I prefer running my Af3 or FM9 into my PSM in stereo, but whatever works. There will likely be many different approaches. Gotta love the forum! So much sharing.

 

[Claude M]

I prefer running my Af3 or FM9 into my PSM in stereo, but whatever works. There will likely be many different approaches. Gotta love the forum! So much sharing.

Yes can't wait for your pics!

 

[Musikron]

If you want to run your mix in stereo, you gotta do that, run the mix in stereo. Right now you're doing part of the mixing in the IEMs.
Run everything to your mixer, hook the FM9 up L/R out on two adjacent mixer channels. Run aux 1-2, (or 3-4 whatever) to your IEMS but treat them as L and R outputs. Many modern digital mixers allow you to pair adjacent channels for just such a use.

 

[Lance Holland]

One more thing to add (I run stereo as well). Many digital mixers have a way of locking together fader levels on two channels. I do this on our Behringer XR18. That allows me to change my levels with one control rather than having to move individual controls for the left and right channel AUX faders.

 

[strabes]

Split your guitar path at the end to out2 and connect out2 to the IEM transmitter. Connect the monitor feed from the board to Input2. Use the In2 block's output level parameter and the physical out2 volume knob to mix between your guitar signal and monitor feed.



I am shocked that you've been receiving a mono monitor feed this whole time. On the rare occasion I get a mono monitor feed it's just awful compared to stereo. Stereo allows you to pan things out of the center so you can mix your ears like a studio record. You should definitely try sending a stereo feed from the console into Input 2 (make sure In2 is set to stereo mode in the global settings). You'll never want to go back to mono again if done right. Basically everything that can be stereo should be (keys, piano, tracks, guitars, overheads, ambient mics, etc).

Also the industry standard is simply sending a stereo feed from the console to the IEMs with all instruments so once you're running everything stereo I suspect you'll find that all this extra cabling is not worth it. Just run out1 stereo to the console and get your full stereo monitor feed from the console.

Once you have everything running stereo, try adding a second similar amp and cab block, both hard panned, with the enhancer block after it (I prefer classic mode because it's the widest). This gets your dry out of the center which makes a ton of space in your IEMs for all the mono stuff down the center (bass, kick, snare, click, vox, etc).

 

[Sauro_on_guitar]

I never thought I could use a stereo guitar signal in my inear monitors (with a two-channel transmitter) and simultaneously be able to independently adjust the volume. Thank you!
I made this scheme with a variation, here it is possible to somehow independently adjust both the volume of the guitar that is sent to the FOH (obviously!) but also the guitar signal in the in ears and also that of the band!
Is this correct in your opinion? It can be done?

 

[strabes]

I never thought I could use a stereo guitar signal in my inear monitors (with a two-channel transmitter) and simultaneously be able to independently adjust the volume. Thank you!
I made this scheme with a variation, here it is possible to somehow independently adjust both the volume of the guitar that is sent to the FOH (obviously!) but also the guitar signal in the in ears and also that of the band!
Is this correct in your opinion? It can be done?View attachment 131115

The Out3 block is unnecessary, simply use the Output Volume parameter on the In2 block itself to control the "band volume" in your mix. Also do yourself a favor and send yourself a stereo band mix into input 2.

 

[Sauro_on_guitar]

The Out3 block is unnecessary, simply use the Output Volume parameter on the In2 block itself to control the "band volume" in your mix. Also do yourself a favor and send yourself a stereo band mix into input 2.

I put the out3 for an "on the fly" adjustment during a live concert...
It can be done?

 

[strabes]

I put the out3 for an "on the fly" adjustment during a live concert...
It can be done?

You're better off using a performance control for the In2 output volume parameter for real-time instant access to that parameter. Manual pages 108-109. I would use a global performance control for this.

 

[Sauro_on_guitar]

thanks!

 

[Claude M]

Split your guitar path at the end to out2 and connect out2 to the IEM transmitter. Connect the monitor feed from the board to Input2. Use the In2 block's output level parameter and the physical out2 volume knob to mix between your guitar signal and monitor feed.

View attachment 131111

I am shocked that you've been receiving a mono monitor feed this whole time. On the rare occasion I get a mono monitor feed it's just awful compared to stereo. Stereo allows you to pan things out of the center so you can mix your ears like a studio record. You should definitely try sending a stereo feed from the console into Input 2 (make sure In2 is set to stereo mode in the global settings). You'll never want to go back to mono again if done right. Basically everything that can be stereo should be (keys, piano, tracks, guitars, overheads, ambient mics, etc).

Also the industry standard is simply sending a stereo feed from the console to the IEMs with all instruments so once you're running everything stereo I suspect you'll find that all this extra cabling is not worth it. Just run out1 stereo to the console and get your full stereo monitor feed from the console.

Once you have everything running stereo, try adding a second similar amp and cab block, both hard panned, with the enhancer block after it (I prefer classic mode because it's the widest). This gets your dry out of the center which makes a ton of space in your IEMs for all the mono stuff down the center (bass, kick, snare, click, vox, etc).

It might shock you even more, to know that I'M the one sending myself a Mono IEM mix!!! I mix my trio from stage and have been for the better part of 10 years. In the 'old' days, we had roadies etc but times changed, money changed and now I mix from stage and we carry our own gear. I was spoilt for over 20 years with roadies etc....

I've done over 4000+ gigs and have only been using Fractal stuff since around 2015, I think. Before then and even now, we don't mix in stereo. I didn't play in stereo back then when I just had a head and a cab. Now with the Fractal stuff, of course I can run stereo at FOH - but I don't - and that's another Stereo versus Mono FOH argument!! But in my ears I can, hence the question I posed. All the answers have been helpful.

I always given myself a guitar feed from Aux 1 to my IEM which obviously includes my guitar, vocals and other instruments I choose. But recently, I've been giving myself a guitar feed direct from the Fractal into the PSM 200 (which is obviously a better sound), as the PSM 200 has two channels, each with their own volume controls on the front panel, which is extremely helpful in ALL live situations. Then I take Aux one to the other channel of the PSM 200 and control that mix from the front panel as well, so I have complete control from the PSM of my mix without having to go to the Mixing desk. It's only recently that I've started thinking about a stereo IEM mix because as mentioned above, we don't mix in stereo and never have, even when we had roadies, FOH guys and trucks to carry our gear (I sound like I come from the prehistoric days!!!!). So though I don't play in stereo out the front, it doesn't mean I can't play in stereo in my IEM!

Thanks for all the advice guys - Gold!