Help with terrible sounding FRFR Setup

ZaccariahLisle

ZaccariahLisle

Member
So, I have a powercab 212 plus and a Laney LFR212. My FM3 sounds terrible through them both. If I bypass the cab block and run the same preset through my tube power amp into a guitar cab it sounds great. If I use an amp sim on my computer and use the same IR that I’m using on the fm3 preset and into the frfr cab it sounds great. So it’s not the amp block, the IR, or the frfr cab…it appears to be something in the cab block. Anybody have any idea what I’m missing?
Thanks!
 
Did you buy it used? Factory presets? Maybe the 'Cab Modeling' is turned off globally?

If used, I would backup the current presets and User IRs (if any are present). And reset it to factory defaults. Update to the latest firmware. Download and import the latest Factory presets.
 
Maybe you just need to adjust the Cuts in the Cab Block. Start with 80 Low Cut and 6000 High Cut and adjust to taste - by ear, not by numbers.
 
You probably know this, but the PowerCabs have speaker modeling built in. It can be turned off, but I think by default it's on, making it respond more like a guitar cab than FRFR.

That says you don't want to also have a cab block enabled in your Axe preset. If the problem is that everything sounds muffled and weird, that could be why.

If that's not the issue, it'd be helpful if you could describe what it sounds like, or post a neutral mic recording of it.
 
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I have a 112Plus that sounds great as a 'speaker cabinet' but is only meh as a FRFR. Have you checked whether you're at line level? Are you pushing +4DB and the 212 is expecting -10DB?
 
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and input. I did a lot more testing and tried everyone’s suggestions. I think what it boils down to is I simply don’t like how IRs sound compared to a real cabinet and I can’t seem to get past the difference. Joel.Brown333’s recommendation definitely sounded the best to me but I’ll have to tweak the eq some more before I’ll be happy with it.
Joel.Brown333 said:
I did this and liked it better.

Click to expand...

Thanks again ya’ll!
 
ZaccariahLisle said:
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and input. I did a lot more testing and tried everyone’s suggestions. I think what it boils down to is I simply don’t like how IRs sound compared to a real cabinet and I can’t seem to get past the difference. Joel.Brown333’s recommendation definitely sounded the best to me but I’ll have to tweak the eq some more before I’ll be happy with it.

Thanks again ya’ll!
Click to expand...

I came from tube amps and 4x12 cabinet. And when I started with modelling I had the same. It was for me quite a journey and only lately I got used to working with FRFR and studio monitors. I needed some time to get used to IR's and I could never get used to the once I tried or the presets from others. Besides that the AMP IN THE ROOM that guitarists are so used to can NOT be met by the FRFR solution using IR's. There is NO amp in the room IR. There are some IR's to be found that use a mix of settings and IR's and they call it FULL SPECTRUM but still it will be a MIC-ed CAB. Also FRFR behaves different (directional sound).

If you want the amp in the room sound and you do not like FRFR then choice the way to have you axe fx with only a poweramp (solid or tube) and have it connected directly to your cab. Of course you will miss the benefit of cabmodelling and going directly FOH, but even that can be done.

Many people use CABS for stage and still go FRFR to FOH. But you can also bypass that part and have you cab mic-ed.

Then there is the FRFR speaker itself: they will color the sound. Look at the Headrush Flatten The Curve subject. You can make the headrush sound great for on stage, but then the FOH could be awfull and visa versa. Same with Studio Monitors. I made great sound back home without testing it on high volume and it SUCKED in the rehearsal room.

So maybe you should just start with a REAL guitar cabinet without IR's first. And in the meantime have the journey finding your FRFR solution that YOU (your ears and fingers) like.

Good Luck!

EDIT: this would be a full spectrum IR example. But it's still not a full amp in the room. But maybe more to your liking...
PS: I should define the source of the IR, but I really do not know where I got it from.
Have downloaded so many IR's last 6 years ;)
 

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musicman0001 said:
I came from tube amps and 4x12 cabinet. And when I started with modelling I had the same. It was for me quite a journey and only lately I got used to working with FRFR and studio monitors. I needed some time to get used to IR's and I could never get used to the once I tried or the presets from others. Besides that the AMP IN THE ROOM that guitarists are so used to can NOT be met by the FRFR solution using IR's. There is NO amp in the room IR. There are some IR's to be found that use a mix of settings and IR's and they call it FULL SPECTRUM but still it will be a MIC-ed CAB. Also FRFR behaves different (directional sound).

If you want the amp in the room sound and you do not like FRFR then choice the way to have you axe fx with only a poweramp (solid or tube) and have it connected directly to your cab. Of course you will miss the benefit of cabmodelling and going directly FOH, but even that can be done.

Many people use CABS for stage and still go FRFR to FOH. But you can also bypass that part and have you cab mic-ed.

Then there is the FRFR speaker itself: they will color the sound. Look at the Headrush Flatten The Curve subject. You can make the headrush sound great for on stage, but then the FOH could be awfull and visa versa. Same with Studio Monitors. I made great sound back home without testing it on high volume and it SUCKED in the rehearsal room.

So maybe you should just start with a REAL guitar cabinet without IR's first. And in the meantime have the journey finding your FRFR solution that YOU (your ears and fingers) like.

Good Luck!

EDIT: this would be a full spectrum IR example. But it's still not a full amp in the room. But maybe more to your liking...
PS: I should define the source of the IR, but I really do not know where I got it from.
Have downloaded so many IR's last 6 years ;)
Click to expand...
Thank you for your thorough response. I love how the fm3 sounds into a tube power amp into a guitar cab. I would love the direct to FOH option and maybe using the IRs that I like using with a computer amp sim and my studio monitors will work, I can just use them with the fm3 to FOH and hope they sound similar. Otherwise I’ll just use the fm3 to power amp to guitar cab and have it mic’d in a live setting. I will check out the files you included. Thank you!
 
If you want “amp and cab” in the room sound, take a traditional cabinet and a good clean high headroom amp (I use a 2u Matrix solid-state thousand watts in stereo) … and turn it up!

For recording it’s way different brother.

My 2x12 cabinets off/way down, typically an 8 inch drivers in self-powered monitors from there because I want to hear what’s gonna go get printed to the DAW tracks.

Different ways for different things.
 
∞Fractals said:
If you want “amp and cab” in the room sound, take a traditional cabinet and a good clean high headroom amp (I use a 2u Matrix solid-state thousand watts in stereo) … and turn it up!

For recording it’s way different brother.

My 2x12 cabinets off/way down, typically an 8 inch drivers in self-powered monitors from there because I want to hear what’s gonna go get printed to the DAW tracks.

Different ways for different things.
Click to expand...
Yea, I’ve got a fryette ps2-a that I’m running the fm3 into and from there out to my 4x12 oversized rectifier cab. Sounds great. I also have a powerstage 700 that I tried as well but didn’t like that as much. Thanks!
 
I keep the IR turned on and play it into a 1x12 combo amp. Sounds better to me than the FRFR sound from a monitor as it’s coming from a real guitar cab, but by using a 4x12 IR, I get that thump I’d normally miss from an open back 1x12

It technically shouldn’t work but for me it does work lol. I think in part because a guitar speaker rolls off highs and lows anyways, and as long as that speaker is fairly neutral, doesn’t color too much, but still getting the sound spilling out of the open cabinet and adding more room sound.

All I can say is give it a try, works great for me. I’m selling all my monitor speakers, just want to hear my guitar through real cabinets these days
 
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