Wish Jazz Amps

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abendJazz

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Definitively, a Jazz oriented amp model:

  • Polytone mini brute
  • Henriksen 112 er
  • other models from same brands or you name the one you'd like to be modelled.

NO fender, roland Jazzchorus, or similar, I Intend amps designed and used for jazz, the common choices between jazz guitarists as the ones I mentioned above.

Edit-
I'm happy to add a suggestion from the member markwayne

  • Standel Super Artist
  • Lab L11
 
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As a weird alternative: there was something really musical about some of the early, solid state amps. I had a Standel Super Artist back in the seventies that had a full-range, high-headroom, clean tone that I loved. I also owned a Lab L11 in the eighties that had a very nice clean that also took pedals really well.

Both of these amps had a clean that had the headroom and warmth to get a great jazz tone.
 
Ciao Markwayne,
thanks for the tip!
Are these amps already modeled inside the FM3? I guess no...
In case they're not, I gladly add your wish to this thread
 
abendJazz said:
Definitively, a Jazz oriented amp model:

  • Polytone mini brute
  • Henriksen 112 er
  • other models from same brands or you name the one you'd like to be modelled.

NO fender, roland Jazzchorus, or similar, I Intend amps designed and used for jazz, the common choices between jazz guitarists as the ones I mentioned above.
Click to expand...
Describe what makes an amp a “jazz” amp, and why you can’t get there with the existing models and controls.
 
. . . Are these amps already modeled inside the FM3? I guess no...
In case they're not, I gladly add your wish to this thread . . .

No. And the reason I brought them up is those early solid-state amps seem to fly under radar in general and don't get talked about nearly enough in my book. There was really something going on there. The good ones had a Fender-ish warmth, even response and without much compression and sag.
 
mr_fender said:
One thing you can try for solid state Jazz tones is skipping the amp block completely and just using a cab block for speaker filtering and the preamp models in it to add some compression and warmth.
Click to expand...
For me, given the current crop of amp models in the wild (this is not just a Fractal issue), this has been the best advice.

I believe the original poster is likely looking for a more specific tone however. Honestly, what constitutes a great jazz guitar tone can be more wide ranging than what makes a great rock tone so there is no way I would speak for the OP.

For me? I want the sound of a high-quality archtop (no laminates) strung with flatwounds from about five feet away only louder.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Describe what makes an amp a “jazz” amp, and why you can’t get there with the existing models and controls.
Click to expand...
Clean but warm with huge headroom and dynamic, focus on warm sweet mids, balanced and rounded high and bottom, fast and responsive, never break up especially never micro-breakups on the attack of the note but with that 'oomph' instead (like to follow that famous Gibson 175 attack); detailed, articulate but not acoustic hi-fi, with own warm character yet intellegibile every single 'swinging' note or complex extended chords.
In few words: a Polytone Mini-brute, an Evans, and most of all a Henriksen (that is the nowadays Polytone).
These are reference for every average jazz musician.

Why you can't use other amp models? Simply bc they're not meant for that sound, they sound different and you have to tweak/cheat/change deep parameters and you'll never get exactly what you need, bc tweaks are too much to get rid of breakup, distortion, note attack breakup, sag, hollow mids, excess of bottom and top end, etc.
In few words: because they are other amps for other uses, and no jazz guitarists will start with them if have a proper choice for their music, exactly like a rock player wants to start from the sound they're after, not from a clean preamp heavly tweaked to sound like a Marshall -ish that will never make him happy .

I hope i was detailed.
I also would like to ask you why a jazz guitarists cannot have a proper, focused jazz amp modeled but adapt different beasts that never works as they need, while a rock guitarist can have 100's of models of the exactly same amp with an added switch...
In the end, we're talking about 1 or 2 jazz amps modeled, why is it so a big issue ?
 
mr_fender said:
One thing you can try for solid state Jazz tones is skipping the amp block completely and just using a cab block for speaker filtering and the preamp models in it to add some compression and warmth.
Click to expand...
Sure that's an option.
But frankly a bit sad option: you buy a 2000 euros device and have to find a turn around to get near (just near) what a simple (relatively) cheap jazz amp does, while you have 100's models of each Marshall, Bogner, Mesa, Fender...why?
 
Because many solid state jazz amps are closer to acoustic or keyboard amps than typical tube amps. They are amps with little character of their own. They are transparent. Fractal models amps that ADD character to an otherwise bland electric guitar signal and each of those different amp models adds its own unique character.
 
abendJazz said:
Definitively, a Jazz oriented amp model:

  • Polytone mini brute
  • Henriksen 112 er
  • other models from same brands or you name the one you'd like to be modelled.

NO fender, roland Jazzchorus, or similar, I Intend amps designed and used for jazz, the common choices between jazz guitarists as the ones I mentioned above.

Edit-
I'm happy to add a suggestion from the member markwayne

  • Standel Super Artist
  • Lab L11
Click to expand...
Well done.
 
mr_fender said:
Because many solid state jazz amps are closer to acoustic or keyboard amps than typical tube amps. They are amps with little character of their own. They are transparent. Fractal models amps that ADD character to an otherwise bland electric guitar signal and each of those different amp models adds its own unique character.
Click to expand...
And that’s the point with using a modeler, you want the coloring. If that’s undesirable then a solid state amp without any coloring is a better choice because, though you can accomplish the same thing with a modeler, why?, because you are introducing complexity and more to have to manage just to get to the same place.

Fractal’s are flexible, and cover sounds to the point most people couldn’t afford half of the amps and pedals modeled, but if you want an amp that doesn’t have a sound per se, skip around it.

We choose Fractals because they simplify our lives, but if they complicate yours then do without.
 
You crack me up.

Fender and Roland make appearances on any list of good/great jazz amps.

Not sure what you're looking for, but it's already in there. I'm not a jazz guitarist per se, I come from a classical background, and enjoy the "jazz tone". Lately I've been delving into more jazzy stuff and the Fenders and Roland are great. I prefer Fender to the Roland, but the JC 120 is still a great amp. I've noticed it's popular to bust on it lately and I suspect that is because it was coopted by metal and punk (oh and it's probably not cool to use an amp that dares to label itself a "jazz" amp), but it's a great amp.

I haven't tried it, but suspect you could achieve a great jazz tone by not even using an amp block depending on your guitar.
 
Came back to add the Nuclear Tone (Swart Atomic Space Tone) as an option. This is an extremely versatile amp. I almost never tried it just due to the name--wrongly assumed it was for metal.

Have you ever heard of Molly Miller? She's a phenomenal guitarist. Her jazz tone ranges the gamut from ultra clean to edge of breakup. Not sure if she exclusively uses Fender, but that's all I've ever seen her use.

Point is there are already some great options in there. Good luck.
 
Guys thank you so much for your answer.
Unfortunately, they dont solve the issue.

1. jazz guitar is not uncolored sound, that's acoustic or Hi-Fi or FRFR; I understand that if you are not into jazz, you barely listened Joe Pass, Grant Green, Jim Hall, etc and maybe with no special attention to the sound, but the tone IS colored, I did my best with a long description above, without results, if the unswer is 'you just need uncolored': 'clean' guitar sound is not 'uncolored'! Color is an Eq/dynamics stuff, it's not a synonimous of 'not distorted'!!
2. Average jazz guitarists use amps in real life, I guess that's the whole point of a modeler: substitute the amp! But people here tell me only 2 things: adapt/tweak/modify an amp meant for another use (funny, I never heard such an answer if the quest is for a rock amp) or to skip the amp altogehter, that vanishes the point of buying a modeler, especially an expensive one like FM3
3. biggest frustration is with the usual answers: Roland Jazz Chorus and Fender, that are the answers form who doesnt have an answer: Roland is NEVER consider an opition for jazz in real life, the most jazz thing about it is the name! I guess that's what confuse who doesnt know jazz music. Fender are completely set for another type of sound: the hole in the mids and the excess of high and low end make them unsuitable for jazz, unless you heavly tweak, and the valve break up in the attack of note makes it unsuitable for complex 'swinging' lines and chords, that get confused and sound funky more than jazz. Sure, it can be the nowadays choice for some rock-ish jazz players, but the ones played by artists in the '50's-'60's where totally other beasts, still they were substitued quickly from SS amps as soon as they came out, because they were loud, warm, dark, yet intellegible and without any distortion on the attack on note.


I'm sad to say that from the answers i get It's honestly becoming a bit frustrating: I supposed that in a musican's forum, you dont have to explain from start every time you talk what a jazz guitar tone is, I supposed, but I was wrong my fault, that everybody had an idea if you say 'classical piano sound' or 'jazz sax sound' or such.
I also supposed that in a modeler forum, people wouldnt answer 'skip amp, find a turnaround that sounds somewhere around what you're looking for and be happy...
I was wrong in both cases.

So I ask the question again making it simpler:
As I'm not the first one to ask for it (there's a thread in this forum that includes schematics too), is it possible to add two simple amps for people playing jazz?

-Polytone Minibrute IV
-Henriksen 112 er

Those are primary choice of any jazz guitarists, so why to keep an entire musical genre out of this device? Adpating an ampli thought for rock is not an option, and if the only option is to skip the amp...well, I dont need Fractal for that!
 
I am familiar those tones. You do realize that Joe Pass used to plug directly into a PA system don't you? Not always, he changed it up. That's partly why I commented you may be able to forgo an amp block altogether...especially if using certain guitars.

"Jazz" incorporates a very vast range of tones, so yes those other amps are viable options for some players.

BTW--better not tell Larry Coryell that no one EVER uses the JC-120 for REAL jazz! :p :tearsofjoy: :p :tearsofjoy: :p
 
The problem is that you are wrong about most jazz guitarists not using tube amps. With the expection of a few like Joe Pass, Pat Martino and Pasquale Grasso most use tube amps, often Fenders.

I agree with you that the jazz chorus is a horrible amp for jazz though.

Tube amps do not distort if you use the correct settings, and if you turn down the treble and bass the mids will get fuller.

Jazz guitarists that use fender tube amps: Jonathan Kreisberg, Peter Bernstein, Lage lund, Mike Moreno, Julian Lage, Mike Walker, George Benson, Gilad Hekselman, Bruce Forman, John Scofield and many others.

What do you think of this sound? This is a fender princeton.

 
abendJazz said:
Guys thank you so much for your answer.
Unfortunately, they dont solve the issue.

1. jazz guitar is not uncolored sound, that's acoustic or Hi-Fi or FRFR; I understand that if you are not into jazz, you barely listened Joe Pass, Grant Green, Jim Hall, etc and maybe with no special attention to the sound, but the tone IS colored, I did my best with a long description above, without results, if the unswer is 'you just need uncolored': 'clean' guitar sound is not 'uncolored'! Color is an Eq/dynamics stuff, it's not a synonimous of 'not distorted'!!
2. Average jazz guitarists use amps in real life, I guess that's the whole point of a modeler: substitute the amp! But people here tell me only 2 things: adapt/tweak/modify an amp meant for another use (funny, I never heard such an answer if the quest is for a rock amp) or to skip the amp altogehter, that vanishes the point of buying a modeler, especially an expensive one like FM3
3. biggest frustration is with the usual answers: Roland Jazz Chorus and Fender, that are the answers form who doesnt have an answer: Roland is NEVER consider an opition for jazz in real life, the most jazz thing about it is the name! I guess that's what confuse who doesnt know jazz music. Fender are completely set for another type of sound: the hole in the mids and the excess of high and low end make them unsuitable for jazz, unless you heavly tweak, and the valve break up in the attack of note makes it unsuitable for complex 'swinging' lines and chords, that get confused and sound funky more than jazz. Sure, it can be the nowadays choice for some rock-ish jazz players, but the ones played by artists in the '50's-'60's where totally other beasts, still they were substitued quickly from SS amps as soon as they came out, because they were loud, warm, dark, yet intellegible and without any distortion on the attack on note.


I'm sad to say that from the answers i get It's honestly becoming a bit frustrating: I supposed that in a musican's forum, you dont have to explain from start every time you talk what a jazz guitar tone is, I supposed, but I was wrong my fault, that everybody had an idea if you say 'classical piano sound' or 'jazz sax sound' or such.
I also supposed that in a modeler forum, people wouldnt answer 'skip amp, find a turnaround that sounds somewhere around what you're looking for and be happy...
I was wrong in both cases.

So I ask the question again making it simpler:
As I'm not the first one to ask for it (there's a thread in this forum that includes schematics too), is it possible to add two simple amps for people playing jazz?

-Polytone Minibrute IV
-Henriksen 112 er

Those are primary choice of any jazz guitarists, so why to keep an entire musical genre out of this device? Adpating an ampli thought for rock is not an option, and if the only option is to skip the amp...well, I dont need Fractal for that!
Click to expand...

Just a tip: don't waste your breath arguing with people on here. Anything that falls outside [current product, current firmware] is heresy. Suggesting that the product is lacking in any way at all is heresy. [current product, current firmware] is the be all end all, until the next one comes out. It's been like that since forever.

Of course if Cliff Chase should decide to model a Henriksen or Polytone some time, the same people will hail it as the second coming of Christ.

Just leave your wish here and don't bother engaging, seriously.
 
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