FM3 Firmware Version 6.01

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nteloss said:
I have made many tests, the most representative was when I used the real amp into the Universal audio OX and send the fractal also to the OX through the secret line input it has. In all the tests we made various amps ans preamps, we always noticed about the same results: There are some low frequencies in the amps that they cannot reproduced ( we tryed many eq tweaking) with the FAS and they have a big impact in the feeling that the guitar player has in his hands.
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The OX is not a realistic load. It uses the same technology as the Two-Notes stuff. Your test was inherently flawed. There will be FAR more low frequencies with the OX as the OX uses a simple RC filter for the impedance curve rather than an RLC filter like our own LB-2 or a Suhr Reactive Load.

An accurate test would be to use our LB-2 loadbox and use the LB-2 impedance curve for the model.
 
I really like this interview with Synyster Gates. Take 15 secs and watch from 1:00 to 1:15. Sure this is just anecdotal, but he is not the only professional musician saying things like this today. To be fair not all adopters are specific to FAS, but you'll be hard pressed to find any serious source that doesn't place FAS at the top for amp modeling (there may be some wiggle room on effects, but not the amps).

 
FractalAudio said:
The OX is not a realistic load. It uses the same technology as the Two-Notes stuff. Your test was inherently flawed. There will be FAR more low frequencies with the OX as the OX uses a simple RC filter for the impedance curve rather than an RLC filter like our own LB-2 or a Suhr Reactive Load.

An accurate test would be to use our LB-2 loadbox and use the LB-2 impedance curve for the model.
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The real amp’s output has a signal. That signal if I understand correct is emulated buy fractal and my fm3’s output has the same signal at 99%. So the signl of the 2 devices should be almost identical and if I feed the OX or any other IR, I sould have almost identical results. Correct or no?
 
nteloss said:
I have made many tests, the most representative was when I used the real amp into the Universal audio OX and send the fractal also to the OX through the secret line input it has.
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What makes you think that UA stuff is the most accurate of them all? Not trying to argue, just want to understand why you comparing others against it, and not the other way around.
 
Chromatizm said:
What makes you think that UA stuff is the most accurate of them all? Not trying to argue, just want to understand why you comparing others against it, and not the other way around.
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The UA is used as a tool for the comparison with the real amps. I have also compared with real cabs. I am not saying that the FAS is not good, actually is one of the best modellers that i have used, but it can be improved in some points.
 
Randalljax said:
Who is we ?
And you know those sub low freq are going to get axed out in a mix right?
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We is me and some other guitar players that were testing and all agreed. Those frequencies are harmonics that have impact to the feel and the response you are getting in your hands when you play.
 
nteloss said:
The UA is used as a tool for the comparison with the real amps
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This is not what I have asked, sorry. I wonder why you think it is the most accurate, that's all. I mean many made such tests, not many believe it is the most accurate. There are many tools for this.
nteloss said:
it can be improved in some points.
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What can't?
Anyway, I don't mean to argue, it will prove no point. Just trying to understand why such a belief in UA. Their product are great, sure, not trying to say otherwise.
 
Chromatizm said:
This is not what I have asked, sorry. I wonder why you think it is the most accurate, that's all. I mean many made such tests, not many believe it is the most accurate. There are many tools for this.

What can't?
Anyway, I don't mean to argue, it will prove no point. Just trying to understand why such a belief in UA. Their product are great, sure, not trying to say otherwise.the used the OX just to have the same cab
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Chromatizm said:
This is not what I have asked, sorry. I wonder why you think it is the most accurate, that's all. I mean many made such tests, not many believe it is the most accurate. There are many tools for this.

What can't?
Anyway, I don't mean to argue, it will prove no point. Just trying to understand why such a belief in UA. Their product are great, sure, not trying to say otherwise.
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The reason I used the OX was to have the same cabs in the amp and the FM3. My focus was not how they sounded but how they feel.
 
nteloss said:
If Cygnus x1 that you dreamed was perfect, then why they released Cygnus x2 that is also perfect and why they will release Cygnus x3 etc?
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Where did I say perfect? This right here shows you’re disingenuous. You don’t answer questions you just put words in people’s mouths and in turn muddy the subject.
 
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nteloss said:
The real amp’s output has a signal. That signal if I understand correct is emulated buy fractal and my fm3’s output has the same signal at 99%. So the signl of the 2 devices should be almost identical and if I feed the OX or any other IR, I sould have almost identical results. Correct or no?
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Did you read what he wrote? If so, then it's clear you didn't comprehend it.

He explained in simple terms (and I'm sure could explain in painstaking detail) the reason why your comparison is flawed.

If you start with a faulty premise you'll likely arrive at a faulty conclusion.
 
nteloss said:
The real amp’s output has a signal. That signal if I understand correct is emulated buy fractal and my fm3’s output has the same signal at 99%. So the signl of the 2 devices should be almost identical and if I feed the OX or any other IR, I sould have almost identical results. Correct or no?
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No, that is not correct. The real amp's output is dependent upon the load. The OX is not an accurate load.

Do some study on tube amps, their low damping factor and the response due to that low damping factor.
 
nteloss said:
The real amp’s output has a signal. That signal if I understand correct is emulated buy fractal and my fm3’s output has the same signal at 99%. So the signl of the 2 devices should be almost identical and if I feed the OX or any other IR, I sould have almost identical results. Correct or no?
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No.
To explain it simply in your terminology: The real amp's output signal is dependent on what you connect the real amp to. So when you connect the OX to it, the output signal of the amp will be different than when you connect a real speaker to your amp.
 
FractalAudio said:
No, that is not correct. The real amp's output is dependent upon the load. The OX is not an accurate load.

Do some study on tube amps, their low damping factor and the response due to that low damping factor.
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Either way, when you play to frfr or recording in studio, the feel is always better and more accurate when you use a real amp through the OX rather than using the Fm3. The 2 units are representing the same thing: the emulation of recording a real amp and cab with microphones. On this perspective the FAS can improve :)
 
nteloss said:
Either way, when you play to frfr or recording in studio, the feel is always better and more accurate when you use a real amp through the OX rather than using the Fm3. The 2 units are representing the same thing: the emulation of recording a real amp and cab with microphones. On this perspective the FAS can improve :)
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That's your opinion. It's very likely that the added bass due to the inaccurate load is giving an exaggerated feel.
 
nteloss said:
Either way, when you play to frfr or recording in studio, the feel is always better and more accurate when you use a real amp through the OX rather than using the Fm3. The 2 units are representing the same thing: the emulation of recording a real amp and cab with microphones. On this perspective the FAS can improve :)
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You don't get it :disappointed:
It's perfectly fine if you prefer your amp through the OX ("the feel is always better"). But please stop claiming that it is "more accurate". The FM3 is not trying to emulate the sound of an amp connected to an OX. The FM3 is emulating an amp connected to a real speaker.
 
nteloss said:
Yes I have, when I have time I will post some clips. Some amps seem to be more accurate than others.
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A good place to start would have been to name just one amp that you feel is so inaccurate. And then maybe give a bit of information what type of music or tone you’re after with that amp. It seems like you don’t understand all the variables at play.
 
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