Export preset as reversible hash?

Disconnector

Disconnector

Inspired
Hello all!

I've decided for the new year to get more serious about my recording studio and to start working in a more structured way on songwriting. So of course, this morning I'm brainstorming ways to make the process more efficient. I'm going through tons of old recording that I've made over the years with the Axe-FX and some of them have pretty killer tone. The problem is that I have no idea what preset I used to create them.

One of the things that I LOVED about the Eleven Rack and Pro Tools (and pretty much the ONLY thing that I liked about Pro Tools . . hahahah) was that settings for the preset that you use to record a track were embedded into the track metadata. So if you listened to something later that you loved you could easily recall the track settings to the Eleven Rack with a click even if you had overwritten the preset or totally mangled it.

While I know there's no way to do this automatically with the Axe and Logic there is a notes section on each track. The notes section will accept only text input. I'm trying to find a way to export a preset or fasbundle, convert it to some sort of text string, and drop it into the text field. That way if later I want to recreate the sound that I used for a track that I loved I could copy the text into an app and have it recreate the sys or fasbundle that I could drop back into the Axe.

I know that changes in the firmware would change the sound of presets but it would be nice to at least get into the rough ballpark.

I'm aware that "hash" isn't the correct term for this since hashes by definition aren't reversible. I'm not sure what to call this - but I want a text representation of a binary object that can later be converted back into the binary object.

Thank you all and happy New Year!
 
Feflicker said:
Save the preset in the session folder.
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What if there are 4 or 5 different ones and some of them similar? Sure you can rename them specifically. Being able to store the preset on the channel would be faster IMO. This is more a DAW request than a FAS IMO. Channels ought to have file folders available.
 
Ability to save sysex along with tracks in S1 is a long-standing request, which as far as I know has still not been implemented. It automatically saves the state of softynths and ITB effects, but nothing external.

I used to use dedicated sysex librarians for hardware patches. What a colossal PITA. Some were specific to particular synths, some had a library of synths they supported, all were flaky, all were different from each other in capability, UI, and workflow. One million percent do not miss that s**t.

A version of AxeEdit that could run as a plug-in might bridge that gap.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Ability to save sysex along with tracks in S1 is a long-standing request, which as far as I know has still not been implemented. It automatically saves the state of softynths and ITB effects, but nothing external.

I used to use dedicated sysex librarians for hardware patches. What a colossal PITA. Some were specific to particular synths, some had a library of synths they supported, all were flaky, all were different from each other in capability, UI, and workflow. One million percent do not miss that s**t.

A version of AxeEdit that could run as a plug-in might bridge that gap.
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Something like emote for Eventide products. All it is is the stand alone controller as a VST/AAX plugin. This would be cool and helpful, but how do you address several different patches? We can only run 1 preset at a time right now.

Imagine an axeFX Studio with enough firepower to launch multiple presets with exponentially more IO? This is the world I want to live in.
 
While it isn't possible to embed the preset in the audio file like the Eleven did (that was a great feature), it would be possible for FAS to provide a simple plugin which stores the preset in the track. This would be a huge boon for recording guitarists, and has been wished for many times:


https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/daw-plugin-editor.163900/


In the mean time, you'll have to export the preset, which, as is discussed at length in that thread, is clumsy, but that's all you can do for now.
 
Embedded settings in the 11R was a great innovation but I couldn't see it working with the AxeFx, not least of all because of the sheer number of firmware updates.

So any way to recall presets is going to run into the problem of being Firmware Specific.
 
Zedhed said:
Embedded settings in the 11R was a great innovation but I couldn't see it working with the AxeFx, not least of all because of the sheer number of firmware updates.

So any way to recall presets is going to run into the problem of being Firmware Specific.
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To quote from the thread I linked above:

- Anticipating a “what about”: firmware updates since the track was recorded shouldn’t be a concern. This feature is intended to allow you to come back tomorrow or next week, while you’re still actively working on the project, and record a punch-in or new take with the same preset. Over a short time span like that, you won’t have to worry about a firmware update changing your tone. It is not intended to save your work for posterity so you can resume work on your project some time in the distant future. If you do that, the preset may or may not sound the same due to firmware changes.
 
GlennO said:
To quote from the thread I linked above:

- Anticipating a “what about”: firmware updates since the track was recorded shouldn’t be a concern. This feature is intended to allow you to come back tomorrow or next week, while you’re still actively working on the project, and record a punch-in or new take with the same preset. Over a short time span like that, you won’t have to worry about a firmware update changing your tone. It is not intended to save your work for posterity so you can resume work on your project some time in the distant future. If you do that, the preset may or may not sound the same due to firmware changes.
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Many people working on serious projects freeze all firmware until it's done, so nothing changes.
 
For me personally, being able to go back and re-amp at anytime was the allure of embedded settings with the 11R.

I do see your point about not being a problem in the short term though.
 
Zedhed said:
Embedded settings in the 11R was a great innovation but I couldn't see it working with the AxeFx, not least of all because of the sheer number of firmware updates.

So any way to recall presets is going to run into the problem of being Firmware Specific.
Click to expand...
I can't imagine that Cliff and crew could make this automatic like PT a the 11R - but almost every DAW has the ability to annotate a track. That's why a text output that could be reimported later is (to me) the simplest and most universal solution.

in the long term it would be useful to see the signal chain even if the tone has changed a bit due to firmware updates. But for a project this would be super valuable.
 
Zedhed said:
For me personally, being able to go back and re-amp at anytime was the allure of embedded settings with the 11R.

I do see your point about not being a problem in the short term though.
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Since the firmware on the 11R only changed twice in its entire existence that would definitely work. Hahaha . . .

Even with firmware changes being able to see the original signal chain would get you back into the ballpark.

EDIT - Since there doesn't seem to be a way to do this natively I'll create a wish list item. In the meantime I'm looking for some non-native software to get it done. I'll post back if I find anything.
 
Disconnector said:
EDIT - Since there doesn't seem to be a way to do this natively I'll create a wish list item. In the meantime I'm looking for some non-native software to get it done. I'll post back if I find anything.
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Regarding a workaround, you can convert the .syx to base64 so it could be inserted into a (large) note on the track, but I'm not sure I'd call that simple, or even universal.

As far as what to wish for, a plugin would probably be simpler for FAS to implement than a new kind of import/export and would be far simpler for the user to operate.
 
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FracTool…Full system backup, firmware version file saved in same folder of project.
Creating a plug-in or integrating with all DAWs would require a whole other team of programmers. Not likely happening.
 
A team of programmers? I don't think so :). But, you're right about one use case. If you want to come back to a project a year from now, after you've gone through firmware updates, a full system backup is the way to go.

I'm not sure that's the use case to aim for though. As I mentioned above, the more likely use case is: while you're still actively working on the project for days or weeks and want to punch-in or record a new take or add a new section to the track. For that use case, when inspiration strikes and you want to quickly put something down, the last thing you want to be faced with is a full system restore from backup :).

For that specific use case, what's the best solution to wish for? Probably a simple plugin with send and receive buttons. What's the best workaround in the meantime? Probably exporting the preset and associating it with the track somehow.
 
GlennO said:
A team of programmers? I don't think so :). But, you're right about one use case. If you want to come back to a project a year from now, after you've gone through firmware updates, a full system backup is the way to go.

I'm not sure that's the use case to aim for though. As I mentioned above, the more likely use case is: while you're still actively working on the project for days or weeks and want to punch-in or record a new take or add a new section to the track. For that use case, when inspiration strikes and you want to quickly put something down, the last thing you want to be faced with is a full system restore from backup :).

For that specific use case, what's the best solution to wish for? Probably a simple plugin with send and receive buttons. What's the best workaround in the meantime? Probably exporting the preset and associating it with the track somehow.
Click to expand...
To program and provide support for multiple DAWs and OSs. I would think a separate team may be necessary. A team could be two or more persons. Maybe they could utilize Fractal-bot code as a plug-in without much effort and may not need another team. The support side of it may need it though
...I'm not the owner or an employee of the company so what do I know.

In the use case you described initially you referenced older presets. I take that as being on older firmware and such. Therefore the current way would be to do a backup and restore of the system from that time period.

In the use case of a current project. I personally wouldn't be changing firmware or anything else until it's finished. If changes to a preset were made, save/export it separately. Add notes, etc. That takes seconds.

If it were somehow necessary to do so. For example taking the unit out for a gig or using it for another project that requires a different setup. Back that shit up!

I totally understand how keeping track of all this can take away from the in the moment creative process. Having a method and structure setup ahead of time is key.

Would a plug-in help? Perhaps. Is it necessary? Perhaps. Are the tools there to get the job done now? Yes.

Thats just me and my thoughts. To each their own.

Now go make some noise...Peace!
 
Like any task that can benefit from computer automation, there are slower ways to do it manually. The whole point of using a computer though is to find a more efficient way to do things so we can focus on making music instead bookkeeping. I do this handling of presets myself all the time and it can be a pain for all but the most trivial of projects. A single button press to archive the preset used in a track would be a big help. The Eleven system was truly inspired and there's a lot to be learned from the way it worked so well. Or, for that matter, Matt can tell you how well this idea worked for Nord.
 
Save the preset with a name that references the track and firmware version. Add the saved preset and , heck why not, the binary for the required firmware to your DAW session. Viola!
 
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