Wish Solo mode for channels

[GlennO]

So to implement this on the FM3/9 or fc6 I envision the switch hold function to enable the “morph“. Let’s say for this example that the morph would be a transition to 4db boost on the amp output level. How would you set this up?

Since you ask (I think your question was addressed to me?), here's an example of a simple solo boost:

Connect a CS to a footswitch. Visit the parameter(s) you want changed for the solo boost and attach a modifier with that CS source to it. Set the parameter range min and max values in the modifier that you want to jump from and to. Optionally add a little bit of damping if you want to make the transition less jarring. The switch will now jump back and forth between the two states.

This has an advantage over channels because you can change other parameters that are not related to the solo boost and they'll stay in sync in the two states. This also has the advantage that if you change channels or scenes, the solo boost will still work correctly. This method also works with midi switches, not just control switches. And of course it works for any two state transition, not just solo boost.

As for concerns about the cpu load, add a modifier to a parameter and see how much the cpu usage changes.

 

[Admin M@]

Connect a CS to a footswitch.
This has an advantage over channels.

Yes! And with damping, you can snap in and glide out!

 

[Greg Ferguson]

While I understand the wish, it’s so easily implemented in multiple ways currently, that I don’t see a need for a “dedicated” way to do it.

Everyone has their reasons for how they want a boost to work a particular way. I’ve experimented with all the ones I could find, and, when I decided on what I want to do I took the base block, modified it and stored it in the Block Library, so it’s easy to recall that block, make any additional changes, and continue with the rest of the preset. My layouts are defined to take advantage of it, so it just works.

By taking advantage of the Block Library you only have to do the work once, which is the goal, right?

 

[Smilzo]

This has an advantage over channels because you can change other parameters that are not related to the solo boost and they'll stay in sync in the two states. This also has the advantage that if you change channels or scenes, the solo boost will still work correctly.

I use all channels, 4 different amp each one. I boost in each scene in different way (compressor block, drive, delay, so on...). Can I use one footswitch, the same, and have 4 different "boost" (parameter and/or value)? Can I assign 4 CS to the same FS, and modify the same parameter? O use somehow the scene to store different value for the modifier?

 

[Smilzo]

By taking advantage of the Block Library you only have to do the work once, which is the goal, right?

The goal is to have a "variation" of a sound in a given preset that suit the need of a live gig. Easy to recall, dependand on the scenes/channel. No CPU load, minimal memory usage. I don't use the editor in studio or live, I prefer the device. But if it works, I will use them. How do you load a block from from library using the footswitch?

 

[GlennO]

I use all channels, 4 different amp each one. I boost in each scene in different way (compressor block, drive, delay, so on...). Can I use one footswitch, the same, and have 4 different "boost" (parameter and/or value)? Can I assign 4 CS to the same FS, and modify the same parameter? O use somehow the scene to store different value for the modifier?

You can use channel-specific modifiers to do this. But, realistically, there are limits to how much you should try to squeeze into a single preset .

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Yes! And with damping, you can snap in and glide out!

I was actually working on that yesterday before I saw this thread, and implemented it this morning. It works really nicely.

Go to amp setting, set "solo output level" to desire level. Assign the FM switch to "solo mode function". Holding the switch. Done with 4 db? Yes, save. No, tweak "solo output level" until 4db reached. Save. Done.

Playing devil's advocate… This won't work well with the Preset Leveling Tool if the "solo output level" is based on specific dB values. Change from absolute values to relative values and the boost value would automatically adjust.

For instance, if an Amp block's level is currently -8.4 dB, and your solo value is -5.4 dB, a 3 dB increase, then if the firmware changes and you relevel to -9 dB, your solo will still be -5.4 dB, which would stick out. If, instead, the Amp block's level was absolute, and the solo was a relative value, perhaps +3 dB, then changing/releveling would not affect the boost, it'd still work just like before.

I don't like adding additional blocks to my presets because I usually start with the FM3, and want my presets to be able to run on any of my units and be interchangeable, and adding additional blocks can eat into the precious CPU % so I use the Out 1 block, but any of the other above blocks will maintain absolute offsets more cleanly than the Amp block.

Perhaps, instead of a change to the Amp block, it makes sense to have a "Boost" modifier or controller that only uses relative values, or have a toggle in the existing scene controllers that switches between absolute values ("%") to relative values ("-/+")? That seems like it'd play into everything that we do now.

How do you load a block from from library using the footswitch?

You don't, the library is Edit-only. The blocks stored are instances of a regular ol' block that you can grab quickly and reuse. Once you've placed that block into the grid it acts like it was always there, and modifiers are automatically enabled.

My Wah, VolPan and Out blocks all have entries in the library, so I can add a VolPan block to the grid, retrieve the version in the library, and it automatically knows to read my External 2 pedal. Similarly, my Out block will automatically enable using CS 6, which is already/previously assigned in my Scene, Effects, and Per-Presets layouts.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I don't use the editor in studio or live, I prefer the device. But if it works, I will use them.

I can see the desire if you're using the front panel for your editing, but I think the request is pretty pervasive, it'd cause a lot of screens on the front panel to be adjusted if it was to do more than affect the Amp block, and I suspect it would require changing a lot of underlying code to add an additional layer to the Preset > Scene > Channel chain.

I'd like to see something that reduces our work but I'm not sure this is the right way to do it. We want something that's simple and elegant that wouldn't require touching every block in the firmware and screen in the editor. Just my $0.02.

 

[Rex]

I think a little more. Yes, It's like having twice the channel (and somehow, with limitations, twice scenes).

I can see that.

No, it's not restricted to a pairs of channels. All channels have solo mode. The number of parameters you can variate is limited. I think each block should have the mode (if it make sense for amp, delay, modulation, drive, reverb... I guess for i/o block, enhancer...).

If you doubled the channels and doubled the scenes, that would be more powerful than adding a Solo mode that uses a limited number of parameters.

Does it make any sense?

Yes, it does. But see above.

 

[GiRa]

I have achieved this since the Ultra (now with the II) with an external MIDI pedalboard and one preset (Axe+pedalboard) per song. Global blocks are a must in this use case.
I think scenes have quite a few limitations and often people suggest "1 small little tweak" to fix their specific need, but the tweak raises the complexity which scenes try to eliminate.

I am not bashing on Smizo's proposal, I think it would be much easier for him to just use a programmable MIDI pedalboard.

 

[Smilzo]

Playing devil's advocate… This won't work well with the Preset Leveling Tool if the "solo output level" is based on specific dB values. Change from absolute values to relative values and the boost value would automatically adjust.

You're welcome! I don't want to tell to Fractal how to develop the functions. I try to suggest the idea, and left out UI and implementations. The solo parameters should substitute the "base" parameters. If volume goes 0-10, then 0-10. If -100+100%, same. They literally "overwrite" the base processing. The solo could be lower than base.
IE: drive=4, level=5; drive solo=7; level solo =4.
When You activate solo, the channel switch 4>7 and 5>4.
Let's forget db (I mentioned 4db only because of @frankencat)

In my idea, you can set amp level to 0 and use the solo function as Kill switch!


(When I read 4db, I guessed what is 4 db in a non linear processing...)

 

[Smilzo]

If you doubled the channels and doubled the scenes, that would be more powerful than adding a Solo mode that uses a limited number of parameters.

That's another wish, I already asked long ago! Since memory is at premium...
This wish just add a few parameters per scene, that are used only when "solo" is active.

But it's not exactly the same. I have scenes 1-5 as rhythm, 6-10 as lead. If I want to go 5 (rytm) to 10 (lead) in FM3/FC6/FM9, what kinf of FS approach should I use? In the wished solo mode I can use ONE FOOTSWICH, THE SAME FOR ALL SCENES/CHANNELS (be it CS, or in physical device). I can set FS1 to "solo mode" and use it independently on the scenes, channel, patches, songs.this

 

[Smilzo]

I have achieved this since the Ultra (now with the II) with an external MIDI pedalboard and one preset (Axe+pedalboard) per song. Global blocks are a must in this use case.
I think scenes have quite a few limitations and often people suggest "1 small little tweak" to fix their specific need, but the tweak raises the complexity which scenes try to eliminate.

I am not bashing on Smizo's proposal, I think it would be much easier for him to just use a programmable MIDI pedalboard.

Yep. I could use Gordius to send sys and change on the fly the parameters! But I like FM3 compactness. If I find a way to use CS I will do, but I don't want to go back to multiple presets. I love FM/FC stompswitch flexibility. Way more powerful than AX8, where I have 7 "useful combination" and 8 real switches. Now I have 10 powerful combination, but only 3 real switches. Using virtual switching (double tap, long press, layouts) helps a lot, but on stage I prefer less tap...

 

[Greg Ferguson]

If you doubled the channels and doubled the scenes, that would be more powerful than adding a Solo mode that uses a limited number of parameters.

Agreed, but requests for more scenes/channels have been made but not implemented, so I suspect there’s some low-level issue keeping them from being added.

As the request stands, it’s pretty easy to accomplish the same idea using CS or scene controllers, depending on how someone leans.

Since memory is at premium...
This wish just add a few parameters per scene, that are used only when "solo" is active.

That would add 8x whatever memory is required for the additional parameters per preset whether the “solo” is active or not, even if the user never sets anything, because the space is still allocated. There’s always a cost involved.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

If I find a way to use CS I will do, but I don't want to go back to multiple presets.

You definitely wouldn’t need to do it with separate presets.

I think the CS will do what you want. They’re very flexible and multiple parameters can be changed to different values, even in different blocks, and be triggered by a foot-switch.

 

[Smilzo]

As the request stands, it’s pretty easy to accomplish the same idea using CS or scene controllers, depending on how someone leans.

I don't think is doable, but I'll give it one (deep) go! The problem is different parameters value on the same channels, but in different scenes. If I can set multiple CS on same FW same parameters, activating them without conflicting, It can be done. It's not trivial at all! I can ignore a specifica CS on a scenes basis, If I remember... let's dive into the manual!

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I don't think is doable, but I'll give it one (deep) go! The problem is different parameters value on the same channels, but in different scenes. If I can set multiple CS on same FW same parameters, activating them without conflicting, It can be done. It's not trivial at all! I can ignore a specifica CS on a scenes basis, If I remember... let's dive into the manual!

For each channel, I wish a "solo mode", a simple variation of the channel with a few parameter setting for a solo sound.
When "solo mode" is off, channel use base parameters. When on, "solo parameters" are used.

The main use is with FC/midi pedalboard/ switch (control) to go from the rithm to solo and back in any scene we are. Solo mode could be a flag stored in the preset setting (or scene setting, if someone want to save a scene in solo mode...?).

The number of parameters could be around 4: in the amp and drive input level, output level, mid and tremble. In the delay block, level, mix, feedback.
Maybe better, let user choose the target parameter and solo value (I wish to tweak presence, rather than tremble or input level!). I think 4 parameter are enough: what do you think?

I attached a small example preset that demonstrates using CS 1 to toggle multiple parameters across two blocks, similar to what you suggested. The values I grabbed are the defaults with some changes when the switch is engaged just to show they're being activated; I didn't make any attempt to make it sound good.

If you look at the Modifiers screen you can see CS 1 is tied to a number of parameters in the Amp and Delay block. I don't know what the limit is, I'm assuming 16 since that's all the screen shows, or whether there's a CPU hit by tying 16 together; It's probably pretty safe to assume that Fractal has limited it to 16 because they don't want to drag the system down:


I assigned CS 1 to Switch 1 as a per-preset override, which should appear on Layout 1 (AKA "Presets") on the first switch. Open the Amp block, step on the switch and you should see the listed parameters change.

As I said above, the changes to the parameters are more of a proof-of-concept and are not meant to reflect a usable preset or sound.

 

[Smilzo]

Tnx Greg, I owe you a beer! I'm working on this just right now, made a post with problems encountered and preset attached.
The (first) problem is not attach the modifiers to many parameters, but it seems to me that the modifiers are per preset (not per scene or channel). they work on every channel! If I set in a Fender the master goes from 4 to 5, EACH scene and channel (marhall and boogies!) have master goes 4 to 5, even if I want them to 10 and 3 in other scenes and channel. I must be missing something obvious...

 

[Moke]

I had a (kinda) similar wish a very long time ago for 2 selectable (via scenes or modifiers) 'Basic/Ideal' and 'GEQ' pages ('1' and '2') in the Amp block. Since the advanced parameters didn't change, I thought that this wouldn't have any gap.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Tnx Greg, I owe you a beer! I'm working on this just right now, made a post with problems encountered and preset attached.
The (first) problem is not attach the modifiers to many parameters, but it seems to me that the modifiers are per preset (not per scene or channel). they work on every channel! If I set in a Fender the master goes from 4 to 5, EACH scene and channel (marhall and boogies!) have master goes 4 to 5, even if I want them to 10 and 3 in other scenes and channel. I must be missing something obvious...

Experiment with these:

• In the modifier itself, for each instance, you can specify whether it works on all channels of that block, or only one specific one.
• In Controllers > CS per Scene you can define whether a CS is On/Off/Last. "Last" uses the last setting it was set to when the scene switched. It might continue across presets, I haven't tested that.

There was another thing to try but I got called to do some "honey-do"s and forgot what it was.

---

Oh, I remember now…

• Scene Ignore in a block might be your friend.
• Also, as a bonus, experiment with Controllers > Scene Ctrl 1+2 as that'll add some additional controls.

These things are fricken flexible, but sometimes it takes some fiddling to find the right combination.