Too Obsessive About USB Choices?

Audiophiles are often obnoxious geeks who love hyperbole, that doesn’t mean they aren’t hearing some actual difference between things.
Let's say we do all believe in "golden ears" The facts are that almost everyone here has spent way to many hours in front of loud amps, speakers, and headphones to have them anymore. And even if we had not spent all that time in front of loud amps, speakers and headphones, mabe 1 in a hundred million people could hear the difference between 5ft audio cables let alone a power cable. Think about this fact.. most "seasoned" audio engineers cannot even hear frequencies above 16000 Hz anymore and most of us over 45 musicians are permanently hearing something over 5000hz. Rainbow colored kool aid tastes nice if you can afford it but most people just see a naked king.
 
Hearing a difference and objectively measuring a difference are two very different things.
Yes, and we all make cost benefit analysis comparisons everyday, some on the fly, some after gathering info. I heard enough of a difference with the AC cable that I asked my engineer, he was also surprised he could hear a difference and agreed it improved the sound of the amp. The cable did not cost very much, so worth the $.

To be clear I would not spend thousands of dollars on cables of any kind, even if I were very wealthy.
 
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Let's say we do all believe in "golden ears" The facts are that almost everyone here has spent way to many hours in front of loud amps, speakers, and headphones to have them anymore. And even if we had not spent all that time in front of loud amps, speakers and headphones, mabe 1 in a hundred million people could hear the difference between 5ft audio cables let alone a power cable. Think about this fact.. most "seasoned" audio engineers cannot even hear frequencies above 16000 Hz anymore and most of us over 45 musicians are permanently hearing something over 5000hz. Rainbow colored kool aid tastes nice if you can afford it but most people just see a naked king.

You don’t have to have perfect hearing to notice sonic differences. Discerning differences in the way two different things sound is not a contest to see who is superior. I have an idea of how I want things to sound and try everything I can to get there.

The audiophile biz is full of hype, but considering the amount of money spent, it can’t all be hype and even legitimate differences people hear are often highly subjective. I have a friend who loves single ended amplifiers, builds expensive phono preamps and only listens to jazz and classical sextets or smaller. He’s right, woodwinds and strings sound nice through his system, but I find the lack of weight to cello and upright bass totally unacceptable, especially for the price tag of his system. But he’s willing to pay that money to get the results he wants.
 
I have Tinnitus and that combined with starting my concert going days in 1972 seeing Led Zeppelin standing in front of a monitor column for three hours pretty much sealed my fate.
 
Even IF that had any actual measurable effect on audio cables, a power cable is NOT an audio cable. AC power is immediately rectified and smoothed to DC for use in an amplifier. A coat hanger can pass 50 or 60 Hz AC without issue up to a certain current threshold.

Yes. This. A power cable isn’t going to make a difference. Any audible difference is a placebo. If you understand electronics and amplifiers then it becomes clear that the hype is nothing other than bull crap. It’s shame these people find gullible suckers to buy this stuff.
 
This is a fair point. For high data rates (such as you get with 4K video) and long runs, capacitance becomes a real concern as it makes for a pretty severe LPF over the length of the run that can destroy the clear peaks and valleys on the signal.

We don't really have to worry too much about that with audio and data to and from the Fractal gear.
We don't actually have anything to worry about with video either, unless you buy cables that lie to you.

The people who decide on the spec for the transmission protocol (e.g., HDMI v2.1) describe what is being transmitted at what time intervals on what pins with what voltages and how to both transmit and receive them, plus the electrical properties that the cable (as well as any active extenders or converters) needs to have in order to work, which includes a maximum length.

If it's in spec, either it works or it's broken. If it's not in spec, it may or may not work regardless of whether it's broken. That's literally it. The same thing is true for all digital cables.

I’m so glad I can’t hear electrons moving at nearly the speed of light in a wire. They’d be so screechy, probably like high-speed fingernails on a chalkboard.

You might find this interesting:



It’s not magic just a basic improvement. I heard it and so did my engineer, who is booked all the time and doesn’t need my money bad enough to ‘yes’ me.

Here’s a review which details the company’s resources and determination to achieve measurable performance improvements:

http://stereotimes.com/cables091001.shtml

That did not include any measurements. If they didn't post measurements, it's only marketing.

I didn’t spend $200, I have the cheaper one, and I’m aware of the marketing angle. They have a patent on their hollow oval wire design, I can hear a difference and the principles outlined in the patent make sense to me. Dig it or not:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US6005193A/en?oq=U.S.+Pat.+No.+6,005,193+

So, first thing's first....if you honestly believe it sounds better and that inspires you...and you can afford it. Go for it. I have fancier speaker cables than I need because I think they're cool. There's nothing really wrong with that.

But...the patent might be funnier than the website.

They basically make 2 claims about how their design is better for high frequency electrical transmission: one about skin effect, the other about current bunching. The information they provide shows that skin effect won't affect AC power in this application, and they make no supported claims about Current Bunching affecting real world AC power, only high frequency transmission. It looks like they got the patent because the design was technically better in a way that even their own application doesn't claim will make a difference for the way the cable is actually being used. But, that's not what the patent claimed. It was granted for a "Cable for transmitting electrical impulses". And in some cases, assuming their information is correct, it would be better at that. Just not when it's used for 50-60Hz 120-220V AC.

It also expired 5 years ago and people aren't rushing to copy it.

It's really similar to the LPF effect of cables. All cables are Low-pass filters. The question is whether or not they interfere with the intended pass band of the signal. And that's math you can look up and do yourself....it's actually pretty simple if you can get the specs of the cables in question (or measure them). That's why the cable does matter between a passive guitar pickup and the first buffer....longer and higher-cap cables create a lower cutoff frequency for the LPF that can be audible. But...it doesn't matter for speaker cables or line-level cables because the important details are so different that the cutoff frequency is above the range of human hearing. It matters again for digital cables (USB, DMX, Ethernet, etc.), since they need a pass band into MHz or GHz, depending on the cable.

A power cable's pass band only has to go a bit above 60 Hz.
 
Did the engineer buy one for
We don't actually have anything to worry about with video either, unless you buy cables that lie to you.

The people who decide on the spec for the transmission protocol (e.g., HDMI v2.1) describe what is being transmitted at what time intervals on what pins with what voltages and how to both transmit and receive them, plus the electrical properties that the cable (as well as any active extenders or converters) needs to have in order to work, which includes a maximum length.

If it's in spec, either it works or it's broken. If it's not in spec, it may or may not work regardless of whether it's broken. That's literally it. The same thing is true for all digital cables.



You might find this interesting:





That did not include any measurements. If they didn't post measurements, it's only marketing.



So, first thing's first....if you honestly believe it sounds better and that inspires you...and you can afford it. Go for it. I have fancier speaker cables than I need because I think they're cool. There's nothing really wrong with that.

But...the patent might be funnier than the website.

They basically make 2 claims about how their design is better for high frequency electrical transmission: one about skin effect, the other about current bunching. The information they provide shows that skin effect won't affect AC power in this application, and they make no supported claims about Current Bunching affecting real world AC power, only high frequency transmission. It looks like they got the patent because the design was technically better in a way that even their own application doesn't claim will make a difference for the way the cable is actually being used. But, that's not what the patent claimed. It was granted for a "Cable for transmitting electrical impulses". And in some cases, assuming their information is correct, it would be better at that. Just not when it's used for 50-60Hz 120-220V AC.

It also expired 5 years ago and people aren't rushing to copy it.

It's really similar to the LPF effect of cables. All cables are Low-pass filters. The question is whether or not they interfere with the intended pass band of the signal. And that's math you can look up and do yourself....it's actually pretty simple if you can get the specs of the cables in question (or measure them). That's why the cable does matter between a passive guitar pickup and the first buffer....longer and higher-cap cables create a lower cutoff frequency for the LPF that can be audible. But...it doesn't matter for speaker cables or line-level cables because the important details are so different that the cutoff frequency is above the range of human hearing. It matters again for digital cables (USB, DMX, Ethernet, etc.), since they need a pass band into MHz or GHz, depending on the cable.

A power cable's pass band only has to go a bit above 60 Hz.

Thanks for all the info and civil tone, I understand the basic principles you mentioned. I have never been under the impression amplifier audio signal somehow travels through the AC cable. So my guess as to why the AP AC cable made the JCM800 sound better is that the AP hollow oval geometry cable may have provided slightly lower resistance along with plugs made of high conductivity material, and allowed the AC current to flow to the transformer and meet the demand of larger transients faster, allowing the transformer to work better. Large transients, meaning palm mutes and hard strums through a high gain amp, with the improved efficiency of the current transfer from wall to transformer resulting in more dynamics and slightly more frequency extension.

With audio signal transmission we are concerned with fidelity and frequency response, and with AC we are concerned with efficiency, right? So doesn’t it makes sense that any design which lowers resistance, as the hollow oval design claims, could benefit both audio and AC line transmission?
 
Thanks for all the info and civil tone, I understand the basic principles you mentioned. I have never been under the impression amplifier audio signal somehow travels through the AC cable. So my guess as to why the AP AC cable made the JCM800 sound better is that the AP hollow oval geometry cable may have provided slightly lower resistance along with plugs made of high conductivity material, and allowed the AC current to flow to the transformer and meet the demand of larger transients faster, allowing the transformer to work better. Large transients, meaning palm mutes and hard strums through a high gain amp, with the improved efficiency of the current transfer from wall to transformer resulting in more dynamics and slightly more frequency extension.

With audio signal transmission we are concerned with fidelity and frequency response, and with AC we are concerned with efficiency, right? So doesn’t it makes sense that any design which lowers resistance, as the hollow oval design claims, could benefit both audio and AC line transmission?

The issue with that thought is that you have the rectifier in the middle changing the current from AC which is not really useable for the purpose of audio. When this happens the signal no longer crosses the 0 line in the negative territory and so just getting a stable flow of electricity to the rectifier is just what is needed, no reason to change resistance higher or lower, or giving more flow.
Maybe this will help a little.


I posted the article for this earlier in the thread.
Great minds and such!
 
So my guess as to why the AP AC cable made the JCM800 sound better is that the AP hollow oval geometry cable may have provided slightly lower resistance along with plugs made of high conductivity material, and allowed the AC current to flow to the transformer and meet the demand of larger transients faster, allowing the transformer to work better. Large transients, meaning palm mutes and hard strums through a high gain amp, with the improved efficiency of the current transfer from wall to transformer resulting in more dynamics and slightly more frequency extension.
It's a guess and one that's completely wrong. A short power cable, with adequate gauge such as the one the manufacturer shipped your amplifier with, in no way hinders or enhances the "AC current flow to the transformer" of the amplifier.

As a layman's test, if there was any hint of truth to what you wrote, you'd see high end amplifier manufacturers who make amps targeting genres where palm muting is prevalent, shipping their amps with very fancy power cables. And they do not. Because it doesn't make a difference. Price isn't a reason to not ship a better power cable with a Diezel, and yet Diezel doesn't ship a better power cable. Because it doesn't do anything.

That's a convincing test that doesn't require you to understand the actual science behind why what you wrote is not true in any way.
 
which includes a maximum length
The HDMI cable spec doesn't define a maximum length which is why working at the extremes of the spec is actually full of stuff that only kind of works.

So, while I generally agree with your "If it's in spec, either it works or it's broken" comment, some specs leave too much room for error that makes the extreme edges of the spec hard to meet reliably. Not ever cable is tested off the line, tolerances vary in manufacturing processes, tolerances across the receiver, cable and sender can add up to an over all integration that floats just out of spec, etc.

But, this is the extreme end of transmission here. Not the bog standard rates we're dealing with over USB and audio gear. And certainly not the mundane AC on power lines in houses.
 
A 100 watt JCM800 2203 has a 4 amp mains fuse IIRC. Your basic run of the mill IEC power cable that ships with most amps is capable of providing between 10 and 15 amps depending on the gauge of wire used inside. The power cable is definitely not the limiting factor there.
 
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