Just Saw Diesel @ $6/gallon!!! WTF!!

Yes to both.
Oil IS a renewable resource.
And it is MUCH cleaner than electric, especially when you stop looking at what may or may not come out of a tail pipe, and look at the entire process and associated industries. Cobalt and lithium mines completely decimate the earth and pump all kinds of nasty toxins into the crust and water aquifers. Oil does the same but to a lesser degree, and the efficiency of converting oil into fuel is higher than forcing toxic heavy metal batteries on the end users of arguably insignificant sources of pollution.
 
la szum said:
In fairness, the push to get off of Petro in the West has been in place since the 1970s. That's 50 years by my accounting.
Pretty much 2 generations have grown up with an awareness of what comes with Petro (wars, insurgencies, regime
change, dictators, puppet governments, and climate catastrophe). It has just been a reluctant slog on the part of
consumers AND corporations alike to make the long-term commitment, though. Basically, we have had a one step forward
and two steps back approach to our relationship to Petro.

The Petro Piper will eventually be paid, though.
Click to expand...
To my point! 50 years to get it done, Where was the priority? obviously not in making a significant change to allow for enough different sources so that everyone has an option to move to now that the time is here. Nope now lets lump the entire world into one basket of eggs and hope for the best as it's too late now! Is it really?

Ha! I want to see the crystal ball these people are looking into that solidifies their position that the world is coming to an end in 7 more years is it now ??? if we all don't do an about face with oil.

Maybe the Paris treaty is to stringent? IDK I haven't taken the time to read through it but I'm wondering if there are even any other energy sources that are allowed? Other than a 30% reduction in CO2 footprint by 2030 just around the corner.

So is it really about climate change? or is it more about money, power and control. The petrol piper IS getting paid! Trust me that's the way they want it, squeeze as much money out of the turnup (the population) as they can before it's to late.
 
Sixstring said:
To my point! 50 years to get it done, Where was the priority? obviously not in making a significant change to allow for enough different sources so that everyone has an option to move to now that the time is here. Nope now lets lump the entire world into one basket of eggs and hope for the best as it's too late now! Is it really?

Ha! I want to see the crystal ball these people are looking into that solidifies their position that the world is coming to an end in 7 more years is it now ??? if we all don't do an about face with oil.

Maybe the Paris treaty is to stringent? IDK I haven't taken the time to read through it but I'm wondering if there are even any other energy sources that are allowed? Other than a 30% reduction in CO2 footprint by 2030 just around the corner.

So is it really about climate change? or is it more about money, power and control. The petrol piper IS getting paid! Trust me that's the way they want it, squeeze as much money out of the turnup (the population) as they can before it's to late.
Click to expand...

I’ll take money, power, and control for $1000, Alex.
 


That would appear to be a bit of an indicator that keeping on with "clean, renewable" Fossil Fuels is not the one.

The unfortunate thing is that it's happening in India, you'd assume that if it was happening in North America* or Europe that people would be a bit more proactive about it. As is, people don't really seem to care about what goes on if it's a reasonable distance away.

*in places that it hasn't always happened.
 
Last edited:
Musikron said:
Yes to both.
Oil IS a renewable resource.
And it is MUCH cleaner than electric, especially when you stop looking at what may or may not come out of a tail pipe, and look at the entire process and associated industries. Cobalt and lithium mines completely decimate the earth and pump all kinds of nasty toxins into the crust and water aquifers. Oil does the same but to a lesser degree, and the efficiency of converting oil into fuel is higher than forcing toxic heavy metal batteries on the end users of arguably insignificant sources of pollution.
Click to expand...
a) How do you renew oil, aside from recreating prehistoric conditions and waiting - what is it? - millennia?
b) A given quantity of oil is used once, whereas a battery lasts for a long time. Do this cleaner claim include the mount of energy produced versus the amount of pollution caused in extracting oil versus the heavy metals?
 
Renderman said:
a) How do you renew oil, aside from recreating prehistoric conditions and waiting - what is it? - millennia?
b) A given quantity of oil is used once, whereas a battery lasts for a long time. Do this cleaner claim include the mount of energy produced versus the amount of pollution caused in extracting oil versus the heavy metals?
Click to expand...
Worth noting that batteries are not required for electrical energy generation too. Yes, cars, boats, but we're talking about the entire picture of energy production being a cause of climate change.
 
Tannhauser said:


That would appear to be a bit of an indicator that keeping on with "clean, renewable" Fossil Fuels is not the one.

The unfortunate thing is that it's happening in India, you'd assume that if it was happening in North America* or Europe that people would be a bit more proactive about it. As is, people don't really seem to care about what goes on if it's a reasonable distance away.

*in places that it hasn't always happened.
Click to expand...


Why do people pretend there never was an ice age?
I agree that getting off fossil fuels is a good thing (what are we going to do about packaging?) but when you have people like Nikola Tesla getting shut down good luck with that....
At least if the politicians keep buying up ocean front properties it might form a protective barrier for the rest of us...
 
Renderman said:
a) How do you renew oil, aside from recreating prehistoric conditions and waiting - what is it? - millennia?
b) A given quantity of oil is used once, whereas a battery lasts for a long time. Do this cleaner claim include the mount of energy produced versus the amount of pollution caused in extracting oil versus the heavy metals?
Click to expand...
 
So, we're gonna make oil/fuel/whatever it is from something that comes from oil? Huh. Call me crazy, but why not just cut out the middle step and stop making plastic bags? Start by banning them. It's no big deal to first, refuse them when it's only a few items you can just carry out the door, and second, take a reusable bag(s) with you for larger purchases.
Everybody always says we gotta "do our part to help." Start there. Little things add up. Even if things like this won't solve the really big problems, at least they're a step in a better direction.

Look at just about every new purchase we make these days, and how many extra, unnecessary little bags are included in the product! Do we really need all those extra parts packaged in their own small plastic bags?
 
TSJMajesty said:
So, we're gonna make oil/fuel/whatever it is from something that comes from oil? Huh. Call me crazy, but why not just cut out the middle step and stop making plastic bags? Start by banning them. It's no big deal to first, refuse them when it's only a few items you can just carry out the door, and second, take a reusable bag(s) with you for larger purchases.
Everybody always says we gotta "do our part to help." Start there. Little things add up. Even if things like this won't solve the really big problems, at least they're a step in a better direction.

Look at just about every new purchase we make these days, and how many extra, unnecessary little bags are included in the product! Do we really need all those extra parts packaged in their own small plastic bags?
Click to expand...
No, we should recycle the things we already have that come from petroleum!

The world of disposable manufacturing has to be banned! Make those products with value in mind and all of the sudden you will start to see less plastic in the oceans or along the roadside or in landfills. Is it a perfect solution no, but it will definitely start to have a positive effect.

Banning plastics would be a pretty extreme solution. The question I would have for you is what are you going to replace it with? The Medical industry is a huge offender when it comes to plastics! A lot of those products have to be put in plastic to keep them free from contamination.

You can't just ban plastics without serious repercussions. It's the same as raising the price of gas to drive people to buy an EV, a knee jerk reaction to fix a problem without having enough forethought as to how it will effect the end users.
 
Sixstring said:
Great idea! God knows there is enough plastic in the oceans alone to make oil for the entire planet for the next decade!
Click to expand...
Sometimes I day dream if the plastic island is as big as Texas (and Texas could supposedly contain the entire worlds population) a few think tanks get together work out a way to terraform it into an island but whoever does it gets the benefit of their own government without the problems of so many others... :D
TSJMajesty said:
So, we're gonna make oil/fuel/whatever it is from something that comes from oil? Huh. Call me crazy, but why not just cut out the middle step and stop making plastic bags? Start by banning them. It's no big deal to first, refuse them when it's only a few items you can just carry out the door, and second, take a reusable bag(s) with you for larger purchases.
Everybody always says we gotta "do our part to help." Start there. Little things add up. Even if things like this won't solve the really big problems, at least they're a step in a better direction.

Look at just about every new purchase we make these days, and how many extra, unnecessary little bags are included in the product! Do we really need all those extra parts packaged in their own small plastic bags?
Click to expand...

A lot of people have no idea how many products are made from oil that is a part of the problem.
One minute you see people complaining about straws and bags and a year after the streets are littered with masks....

In some green cities there are grocery stores where you have to bring your own containers etc in an effort to do away with packaging.
Don't get me wrong it makes me want to cry every time I walk in my apartment recycling area to see how much waste is generated (even if it is being recycled!). And then sending the material overseas to be recycled???? How about some job creation...
 
I get curious about stuff n wondered how much more expensive it is to drive from A to B today than it was when I first became a gasoline consumer myself back in 1975, when, at 14yo I would purchase small bits of gas for my dirt bike. In 1975, a litre of gas was around 15 cents local to my city here in Canada. Using the bank of Canada's handy dandy inflation estimator I'm told that 15 cents cdn in 1975 is the equivalent of around 80 cents cdn today give r take. Checking my local gas prices I can see that the cheapest gas around here today is around $2.04Cdn. Lets round that to 2$ for easy math. So the price of gas has gone up 2/.8*100=250% since 1975 in real terms, however, looking around at some stats here and there for average increases in gas milage realized through improvements in automotive technology since 1975, it seems your standard new daily driver now gets 250+% better gas milage than the standard early 70s creampuff. So essentially, it costs the same for me to drive from A to B today, as it did for my old man back in 1975 in his beloved 73 Buick Centurion.



Discuss!
 
Last edited:
sprint said:
Discuss!
Click to expand...
I'm not going to try to dig up the data, but since the cost of the fuel is only one part of what it "costs to drive", if you factored in everything that adds to those costs, adjusted for inflation as well, I'm betting it costs us more to drive today.
Vehicles are way more complicated, and as such even basic maintenance (of which there are many more items that either need maintenance, or will need to be repaired) is something that your average DIY'er cannot do. Maybe not so much things like oil changes and air filters, but nearly all types of repairs...? Forget about it.
I had an anti-lock brake sensor go bad on a truck once, that costs $250 to replace! Stuff like that.

And really, I didn't start this thread to be about how fuel prices affect our cost to drive, I was trying to point out that we all need to buckle up, because this spike in diesel is going to put inflation into overdrive. That and the cost of gas rising so fast in such a short time period is also going to be felt in the overall economy. I'm already seeing people (everywhere, it seems) talking about not taking a certain summer vacation, not purchasing certain items they were planning to buy..., that sort of thing.

You just cannot have a 50% cost increase in something that is so vital to the economy, such as diesel fuel, and not have it affect people all over in a very negative way.
 
Sixstring said:
The world of disposable manufacturing has to be banned!
Click to expand...
Best idea on this thread.

Design sturdy, repairable, modular products that are built to last. Require cross-manufacturer standardization for appliances, computers, vehicles....all of it. Adopt standardized, reusable packaging similar to the totes used in retail for inter-store transfers. Most of the waste is completely unnecessary. Of course, the mega-corps wouldn't permit any of that to happen.

Back on topic....the current energy cost inflation is entirely artificial and policy driven. It could...and should...be fixed with a few pen strokes and some time for recovery.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom