Front panel poll

Is the front panel fine how it is or could it use some improvement?

  • Fine How it is

    Votes: 94 37.2%

  • Needs improvement

    Votes: 77 30.4%

  • rats behind, don't use it enough to have an opinion either way

    Votes: 82 32.4%
  • Total voters
    253
  • Poll closed .
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Interestingly, so far NI is trailing in the poll, suggesting even a broad definition of NI still isn't giving the choice much traction.
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Well, there are quite a few people who simply don't use Axe-FX because its "interface is too complicated". They don't frequent the forum and don't participate in the poll.

Bruce Sokolovic said:
The way I see it is Fractal's resources are a finite quantity. As stated, they DO listen rather closely to the comments and concerns about their product which is one of the many things I love about FAS. For my vote of one, I think organizational management within the unit as well as a few handy recording features are much more important than trying to figure out how to get 80,000 parameters on a patch instantly adjustable in an intuitive way from the front panel. I'm a case study of one and I understand that. Whats the potential tradeoff in getting this? Waiting longer for a few new models, a few new effects or other new features? God only knows if R&D is going on for a new product altogether or if somehow resources are needed to get FM9s out to the waitlist. May be worth it to you, only you know but not to me.

P.S. Im not arguing this is just how I speak ;)
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I'd venture to guess that people who are experts in user interfaces aren't necessarily the same people who are great at creating amp modeling wizardry.
 
vangrieg said:
Well, there are quite a few people who simply don't use Axe-FX because its "interface is too complicated". They don't frequent the forum and don't participate in the poll.


I'd venture to guess that people who are experts in user interfaces aren't necessarily the same people who are great at creating amp modeling wizardry.
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how many? my guess would be the opposite - people looking to get the best tones possible from a modeller won't let something trivial relative to tonal capability, like the FP UI EOU, stop them from getting there.
 
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vangrieg said:
I'd venture to guess that people who are experts in user interfaces aren't necessarily the same people who are great at creating amp modeling wizardry.
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This is why you hire designers, UI experts etc to work on those aspects so engineers like Cliff can work on the stuff where they have the best expertise. Nobody can be an expert in every area.

Axe-Edit is by all means well designed and has gotten some meaningful UI improments during the Axe-Fx 3's lifetime but I feel that same improvement hasn't extended to the onboard UI, with the double click shortcut buttons being the most significant change it has had in a long time.
 
vangrieg said:
Well, there are quite a few people who simply don't use Axe-FX because its "interface is too complicated". They don't frequent the forum and don't participate in the poll.


I'd venture to guess that people who are experts in user interfaces aren't necessarily the same people who are great at creating amp modeling wizardry.
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As I stated in the op, if you canā€™t operate an Etch o Sketch this thread and probably hardware isnā€™t for you. There isnā€™t a hell of a lot of grey area between the two. Those customers will be lost regardless. They want a couple knobs and few options. This isnā€™t for them. The authentic tab in my opinion is a good compromise, but even that will be above the heads of some. There are people who reject tech and wear it like a badge of honor. My mother in law refuses to text. She simply wonā€™t do it and refuses to learn how to operate a cell phone and is proud of it. These people will not change.

I personally donā€™t feel ā€œfine the way it isā€ means perfect donā€™t change a thing. It just means itā€™s adequate, functional and intuitive. I think a manual read for a user of average intelligence and experience should be well acquainted with the front panel before pushing a single button. To me, thatā€™s not asking too much and puts it in the adequate category.
 
I can only speak for myself.
After reading the manual (what everyone should do) I have zero problems using the front panel.

When my Axe III did arrive, I did not use Axe Edit for letā€™s say six months, because I found the front panel/ UI easy to use.
We are talking over a professional unit here and not a game console etc.

But as with everything this is my very subjective view.

But again, reading the manual is extremely important.
 
Sashman said:
I can only speak for myself.
After reading the manual (what everyone should do) I have zero problems using the front panel.
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Reading the manual helps if there's something you can't figure out somehow, and if you use that information on a more or less regular basis after that.

The problem isn't that the front panel is impossible to figure out, it's just unintuitive at times, so it takes time to do some simple tasks if you don't remember how they are done, and they are hard to remember if you do them once a year or so. For this, reading the manual doesn't help, unless you mean to carry it with you for reference everywhere.
 
vangrieg said:
Reading the manual helps if there's something you can't figure out somehow, and if you use that information on a more or less regular basis after that.

The problem isn't that the front panel is impossible to figure out, it's just unintuitive at times, so it takes time to do some simple tasks if you don't remember how they are done, and they are hard to remember if you do them once a year or so. For this, reading the manual doesn't help, unless you mean to carry it with you for reference everywhere.
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Probably I have zero issues because Iā€˜m doing this for years since back to the first Axe Std.
 
vangrieg said:
The problem isn't that the front panel is impossible to figure out, it's just unintuitive at times, so it takes time to do some simple tasks if you don't remember how they are done, and they are hard to remember if you do them once a year or so. For this, reading the manual doesn't help, unless you mean to carry it with you for reference everywhere.
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Exactly. Axe-Edit is quite intuitive to use and only time you need to refer to the manual is when you are unsure of what a parameter does (and I hope Fractal integrates the manual to the app somehow in the future so this issue goes away too).

By comparison on the front panel I find I regularly get Enter/Edit the wrong way around when trying to open things in different places or can't find a less common param because it's not in the same place it's in Axe-Edit (works the other way around too of course) or the way the controls operate changes based on if it's a row of knobs, list view, cab view (only one afaik that uses the column format, would be nice for Multitap block too), graphic EQ (with differences between drive/amp block EQ pages vs graphic EQ block too for nav key functions) etc. That's a lot of stuff to keep in your noggin' on the regular just to work with the onboard UI's peculiarities. To me it's more about things like how quickly you can find the things you want, how much you have to reorient yourself between views to figure out which knob controls what, where the cursor is and so on.

If Cliff works with the front panel most of the time he's unlikely to see the issues because he keeps that knowledge fresh. But the average Fractal user is more likely to work 80-90% in Axe-Edit and 10-20% front panel and that changes the situation. Yeah we can all achieve what we want with it, it's more a question of how straightforward it is to do so.

Nobody is saying "I cannot work with the front panel at all", just that doing so is not as good an experience as using Axe-Edit or doing those same tasks on competitor's devices (which have their own failings in other areas often more important than the UI).
 
I just went to my Axe-Fx III and approached the front panel UI with a completely fresh / blank mind, paying attention to the knobs, buttons etc.
I really think everything is fairly logical.

If people can't grasp how it works, or are baffled by EDIT vs ENTER, I don't know what to say. Except that operating the oven must be hell.
 
yek said:
I just went to my Axe-Fx III and approached the front panel UI with a completely fresh / blank mind, paying attention to the knobs, buttons etc.
I really think everything is fairly logical.

If people can't grasp how it works, or are baffled by EDIT vs ENTER, I don't know what to say. Except that operating the oven must be hell.
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Nah, the oven is fine, as are most appliances and devices.

As for Enter, I'm not even sure why it exists and why pressing the big knob doesn't do the "Enter" action. It's just weird and, as someone mentioned above, inconsistent. Turning the knob also does strange things at times.
 
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yek said:
I just went to my Axe-Fx III and approached the front panel UI with a completely fresh / blank mind, paying attention to the knobs, buttons etc.
I really think everything is fairly logical.

If people can't grasp how it works, or are baffled by EDIT vs ENTER, I don't know what to say. Except that operating the oven must be hell.
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There must be a Oven forum to prevent them from starving.
 
yek said:
If people can't grasp how it works, or are baffled by EDIT vs ENTER, I don't know what to say. Except that operating the oven must be hell.
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I bring up the Edit button because it's an easy to understand example: "I need to remember to press this button A to do the same thing button B does everywhere else" as a form of inconsistency in the way the UI works. It's not rocket science and does not mean people can't work with it. Condescending comments are not helpful.

Fractal could add a menu option that reverses the Edit/Enter functions in Layout grid. Let the users choose which they feel works better for them.

I agree that pressing the big knob would be the most obvious "interact with currently selected thing" function. For inexplicable reasons the FM3 does not have it though so it's Enter instead. But maybe Fractal have tested it and decided pressing Enter felt better.
 
vangrieg said:
As for Enter, I'm not even sure why it exists and why pressing the knob doesn't do the "Enter" action. It's just weird and, as someone mentioned above, inconsistent. Turning the knob also does strange things at times.
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True, <ENTER> is not required a lot. But it is an essential control to have. So it's a good thing that it has secondary functions, such as opening the modifier menu.

Don't know about the value wheel.

The general paradigm is:

  • Value wheel: changes values
  • Edit: always edits a block
  • Nav buttons: navigate (move focus)
  • Enter: confirms action when required (which is not often)
  • Exit: exits current screen
  • Page: switches tabs, just like on a browser

Now sometimes those controls also act as a shortcut, a secondary function just like ABCDE:

On the Home screen:
  • Value wheel: switches presets (technically correct: it changes the preset "value")
  • Enter: switches to Layout grid
  • Edit: switches to a (selected) block to edit

On the Layout grid:
  • Value wheel: changes block type (technically correct: it changes the block "value")
  • Enter: (dis)connects blocks (just a shortcut, avoids having to go to the Tools menu)
  • Edit: switches to a (selected) block to edit, and changes to the next or previous block
 
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