How do I pair IRs?

MackieFX

MackieFX

Experienced
I've been using Leon Todd's video on choosing an IR and it's great but it seems like using a single mic on a cab isn't the way people record.

I'm wondering how if there are any tutorials out there on how to use multiple IRs, how to pair mics etc
 
I don't know any tutorials, but if your goal is tone, as Cliff says: "use your ears not eyes".

There is no golden rule or approach that works for everyone. Many happily use a single IR. Some use two IRs with different mics (e.g. a 121 and a 57) to get both low-end punch and high-end detail, sometimes panned center, sometimes hard L/R or anywhere in between. If you're double tracking for recording, use two different IRs (perhaps with different amps as well) to fill out the wall of sound.
 
Ribbon + dynamic together is a studio standard. I almost always use one of the 57 IRs in conjunction with one of the 121 or 313 IRs. The 57 is just a classic sound, but the ribbon gives it some more oomph. You have to watch the lows and low mids from the ribbon though, those can muddy up a mix real quick.

Besides the parts on which I used a modeler, most of the guitars on album 2 were 57s on an old AC30 and Twin.
 
strabes said:
Ribbon + dynamic together is a studio standard. I almost always use one of the 57 IRs in conjunction with one of the 121 or 313 IRs. The 57 is just a classic sound, but the ribbon gives it some more oomph. You have to watch the lows and low mids from the ribbon though, those can muddy up a mix real quick.

Besides the parts on which I used a modeler, most of the guitars on album 2 were 57s on an old AC30 and Twin.
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Nothing like getting a monster guitar sound full of low end just to have to dial half of the low end out for the mix. After doing this 50 times, you learn those huge sounds don’t always work. That being said, Friedman amps I believe are intentionally anorexic in the lows for this reason. I can run the bass at 10 on my BE100 and it won’t kill a mix. That amp always seems to need very little to get it sitting right.
 
The tip of pairing a 57 with a 121 is huge. Auditioning thousands of different IR combinations is pointless because ear fatigue sets in quickly. I did that for hours on end without success when I first got my Axe Fx. At least with the 57/121 trick, your search becomes more focused. If you are looking for someone to give you a magic pairing, that usually doesn’t work either because all of our tastes are different. Let your ears guide you. Pick a cabinet that you think you will like. Find a 57 that you like from that group. Then blend in a 121 of the same cabinet. I’ve had a ton of success leaving them at equal volumes. Also, don’t let the brand name bias you. I ended up pairing an Orange 4x12 with a Trainwreck Express.
 
FlyInverted said:
The tip of pairing a 57 with a 121 is huge. Auditioning thousands of different IR combinations is pointless because ear fatigue sets in quickly. I did that for hours on end without success when I first got my Axe Fx. At least with the 57/121 trick, your search becomes more focused. If you are looking for someone to give you a magic pairing, that usually doesn’t work either because all of our tastes are different. Let your ears guide you. Pick a cabinet that you think you will like. Find a 57 that you like from that group. Then blend in a 121 of the same cabinet. I’ve had a ton of success leaving them at equal volumes. Also, don’t let the brand name bias you. I ended up pairing an Orange 4x12 with a Trainwreck Express.
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I found, through the blind test method of scrolling through IRs that I like the 57/160 or 57/121 combo for most any speaker, with the ribbon mixed a bit lower, until the core tone from the 57 feels solid in the lows. Agreed that it saves a lot of time to look for those IRs, and I usually load just those from IR packs. Why load the freezer with garlic ice cream if you know you like rocky road?
 
One technique is to use the same IR but different mic placement panned L/R. Many of the IR's have A, B, C, D versions representing different mic locations.

This keeps the stereo image balanced but breaks out of a pure mono sound.

I wouldn't do this with an SM57/121 pair as one side would be more bass heavy.
 
Recording typically uses multiple tracks of the same guitar part (double tracking) which can be emulated using the enhancer block or a delay with the time set @ 30ms with zero feedback. As far as mixing IRs, my approach is to use a bright (Cap or Cap Edge) and a dark (Cone or Cone Edge) IR, both Levels usually at zero. Then add a back of cab or room IR and reduce the Level on this IR to get the sound I'm looking for.

I never used an isolation cab or had the cab in a treated room so the room and back of cab IRs help get the room bleeding into the mic sound I prefer. There are Room parameters in the Cab block you can play with that may get you what you need to hear.
 
yyz67 said:
As a note for the OP... unless running a stereo signal into the CAB (say two different AMPs panned L/R or a stereo effect like chorus or reverb after a single AMP but before CAB), this would be sonically identical to a single centered 57/121 combo.
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...but would have the dubious distinction of using at least 5-6% more processor with no audible difference....
 
yyz67 said:
But doesn't using an additional 5-6% mean it must sound better?? ;)
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Only to the electric company....

FWIW, marginally related to this, the firmware thread, and the AITR thread - I have found that where I had been mixing in a little bit of a 'room' IR to get a more 'present in my physical space' sound previously, since 15 came out, I have been switching those 'room' IRs off....
 
FlyInverted said:
I like everything in stereo. Lots of chorus and stereo delays.
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Me too, but my chain splits to stereo after the cab in the chain. I tried a stereo chorus before two amps/cabs and split to stereo briefly, but found it wasn't different enough from using it post-cab to warrant using double amps/cabs....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
Me too, but my chain splits to stereo after the cab in the chain. I tried a stereo chorus before two amps/cabs and split to stereo briefly, but found it wasn't different enough from using it post-cab to warrant using double amps/cabs....
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I started that way, but it became too difficult to split for FOH, cabinet, and IEM. Can't have the cab block active going to the stage cabinet. That would sound really bad. And, putting the effects after the cab block means they will not be present thru the stage cab. Plus it makes more sense to me to put the cab last. So I end up with out1 to FOH, out3 to IEM, and I split before the cab block to out2 to the stage cab all at the end of the chain.
 
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