Digital Room Correction

[Clockwork Creep]

Sonarworks Reference 4, in this case.
Anyone else heard of this stuff? Have you tried it?
As soon as I found out it was a thing, I was so curious to try it I bought it immediately. Waiting for my reference mic to arrive now...
What it is: During the audio mixing/mastering process, you need to hear the most true sound of your mix to get it right. But even with room treatment, the room and the speakers still give their own coloration...
This software is designed to counter-act this coloration and make you hear the audio as flat as possible, after some calibration using the reference mic.

Here's a video:

 

[Geezerjohn]

Interesting concept. I can't help but think that once you have created the perfect flat mix, when people listen to the recording, they will be listening to it on a system with room coloration unless they are listening with headphones. As an engineer, one of my biggest challenges is creating a recording that sounds good on a variety of systems. Been chasing that since I started having an interest in engineering music.

 

[Clockwork Creep]

Interesting concept. I can't help but think that once you have created the perfect flat mix, when people listen to the recording, they will be listening to it on a system with room coloration unless they are listening with headphones. As an engineer, one of my biggest challenges is creating a recording that sounds good on a variety of systems. Been chasing that since I started having an interest in engineering music.

Sure they will.
But as I understand, since all rooms are unique, just because you make it sound good on your room, doesn't mean it will sound good in another room. So your best bet to make the mix work in all rooms is to mix it without any room coloration...
If your room cuts out some frequences, for example, in the low area, you may try to compensate it. And this compensation will become an undesirable bass boost in any other listening environment.

 

[yeky83]

Sonarworks Reference 4, in this case.
Anyone else heard of this stuff? Have you tried it?
As soon as I found out it was a thing, I was so curious to try it I bought it immediately. Waiting for my reference mic to arrive now...
What it is: During the audio mixing/mastering process, you need to hear the most true sound of your mix to get it right. But even with room treatment, the room and the speakers still give their own coloration...
This software is designed to counter-act this coloration and make you hear the audio as flat as possible, after some calibration using the reference mic.

Here's a video:

It works pretty well for frequency response correction, but it does nothing for the underlying issue of resonances, nor does it take care of early reflections. Best results will still come from room treatment, along with free software like REW to measure.
If you're not able to do acoustic treatment, or if you've done so and want to put a cherry on top, that's where a software like Sonarworks would come in.

Here's a good write-up on a similar product. Look at the graphs on the left, see how the response is flattened, but ringing persists:
http://realtraps.com/art_audyssey.htm

 

[DannyEvil]

It works really well. It is not a perfect solution but it can help a lot. It is not a replacement for acoustic treatment.

Sonarworks doesn't work on your input monitoring unfortunately. I have been recently looking into hardware units as I would like to be able to reference what is coming into my inputs as well.

 

[aziz]

Physical treatment is still the king, but the concept does work. Genelec has had it built in their SAM speaker models for 12 years now. Switching it on/off in a not perfectly treated room makes a huge difference, at my house, it's like dumping a wheelbarrow full of mud on the low mids. I like having it built in in the speakers so it works with all sources without the need for computer and VST.

Just don't try boosting the valleys even if the software allows it, it won't do any good. A null is a result of the sound wave reflecting from somewhere, and hitting your ears in the listening position half wavelength later than the direct signal. Boosting that frequency will boost the reflected signal the same amount, therefore gaining you nothing, while diminishing the headroom of your speaker system.

Like yeky said, DSP does nothing to the uneven decay times with different frequencies in your room, which is the reason for the dreaded "one note bass" in bad rooms, and other bad stuff if it's less severe.

 

[Sustainerplayer]

Make as much room treatment as possible.

Then use the REW measurements to "learn" your rooms peaks and dips (especially the waterfall graph), so you don't overcompensate those frequencies.

Take your final mixes and masterings for a spin in some other rooms, the car, your phone etc. By time you'll learn to "live" with your room, gear and ears' idiosyncrasies.

 

[SJB]

I have Sonarworks reference 4, and use both the room correction and the headphones correction. Of course, the head phone correction is independent of room characteristics. It works great... you get what you hear. As far as the room correction.... I knew that I had a pretty big hole in bass response... because people were telling me my mixes were weak on low end. Sonarworks identified the problem. I applied some typical room treatments (bass traps and 2-in foam panel) and then I ran Sonarworks and applied the correction while re-mixing. Worked like a charm. No one complains about my lowend any more Several have already said it above - go as far as you can afford with acoustic treatments, then apply the sonarworks correction. It will improve your mixing space - don't forget to use the headphone correction as a comparison.
My two cents-
S.

 

[yeky83]

I have Sonarworks reference 4, and use both the room correction and the headphones correction. Of course, the head phone correction is independent of room characteristics. It works great... don't forget to use the headphone correction as a comparison.

IMHO headphone correction is kind of baloney... Rant incoming! haha but I do hope this is somewhat useful.

Click on any headphone measurements here, and notice the high frequency response:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-measurements

For example, here's the very good Sennheiser HD800:

​

All of them have a jagged high end. And frequency response varies wildly with slight position changes (grey plots). The various resonances of your pinnae (outer ear) and ear canal are severely affected by proximity to the headphone cavity, and make for non-accurate high end that is personal to the shape of your ears. This is inherent with any headphones, and you can't correct that with Sonarworks.

So headphones aren't good for high freq. But they're great for low end accuracy! And Sonarworks might help flatten that out... somewhat. Bass response is still ultimately limited by physical bass limitations of the headphone driver.

Added to this is the issue of HRTF. Headphones aren't supposed to have a "flat" frequency response like speakers, it's supposed to be something like this:

And there are several competing versions of this HRTF graph. Does Sonarworks use HRTF? Which one?
Their FAQ has conflicting info, saying "Our unique calibration process employs a transfer curve..." then later "HRTF. Our plug-in does not support it, not yet at least." Wtf, which is it?

Anyway, all this leads to me calling BS on Sonarworks' headphone corrections. It can't remove what's actually problematic with headphones. Who knows what they're actually doing... probably some broad EQ stuff you can do on your own.

 

[JJunkie]

I have it. Like it. I dont mix though. I just use it to listen to media and jam through. All audio on my comuter is routed through a DAW session. I have tried to use the "systemwide" app instead of the DAW session but did not find it to behave consistently.

It really is a good tool to have with an axe fx. It takes out that worry that you are dialing your tones to compensate for room acoustic issues.

 

[aziz]

The Sonarworks headphone correction does basically nothing to Sennheiser hd600, but it tames the high peak from hd800. Bad phones don't get any better with the correction, it's better to just use them as is.

 

[yeky83]

The Sonarworks headphone correction does basically nothing to Sennheiser hd600, but it tames the high peak from hd800. Bad phones don't get any better with the correction, it's better to just use them as is.

Sorry but that makes no sense lol
1. The Sonarworks correction can't make any difference with a bad headphone, but somehow makes good ones better? Good ones don't need changing, what's it changing anyway?
2. HD600 ain't a bad headphone.

 

[steadystate]

IMO, largely snake oil. Without proper room treatment, even a slight change in listening position will yield a substantial variation in amplitude response. Averaging the response at multiple locations does not help to address your listening position. Your money is better spent on bass traps and diffusers. If your room is well-treated, this might help identify problems with your monitors/system at a fixed listening position. But no amount of eq is going to fix a bad room.

Since my room is poor (as am I), I rely on a precise listening location and constant reference to familiar commercial records for comparison. Even top selling recordings are all over the map sonically. I choose ones that are an average and shoot for that.

 

[aziz]

Sorry but that makes no sense lol
1. The Sonarworks correction can't make any difference with a bad headphone, but somehow makes good ones better? Good ones don't need changing, what's it changing anyway?
2. HD600 ain't a bad headphone.

Yes, as in HD600 is already so nice it does very little changes in the high mids, it tames a slight peak from there. The HD800 has a bigger presence bump, bright peak in the same place. Bad phones, as in the many other "not so good" phones in the available correction list do not magically morph into HD600, they are just heavily EQ'd bad phones by then.

I use the HD600 the most. I have captured the Sonarworks correction EQ for it and all my other phones as IR sweeps, so I could use them as a master EQ for listening, but it's too much of a hassle. I also have AKG 271, 550mk2, Beyerdynamic DT770 and Sennheiser HD25 for comparison, and I won't use anything but the HD600 for mixing.

 

[cobbler]

IMO, largely snake oil. Without proper room treatment, even a slight change in listening position will yield a substantial variation in amplitude response. Averaging the response at multiple locations does not help to address your listening position. Your money is better spent on bass traps and diffusers. If your room is well-treated, this might help identify problems with your monitors/system at a fixed listening position. But no amount of eq is going to fix a bad room.

Since my room is poor (as am I), I rely on a precise listening location and constant reference to familiar commercial records for comparison. Even top selling recordings are all over the map sonically. I choose ones that are an average and shoot for that.

How does one know where to place the bass traps and diffusers? I have a very odd shaped room with a sloping high ceiling and several odd corners etc. Are there tools that help out? If so are they so expensive that it is cost prohibitive so you need to hire a pro? Just curious.

 

[favance]

I've said this before. Would be cool if I could connect a RTA Mic to the Axe-III, select a white noise generator signal for the unit, and it would allow me to adjust the global frequencies against what the mic is reading, in order to flatten patches for the room. I can already do this on the PA (Presonus Studio Live). But, If I'm not using a digital board, or going thru the PA, I would like to use a feature like this. Thx

 

[JJunkie]

I got an email announcing version 4.1 today. Claims that the measurement process has been revised to yield up to 33% more accuracy (+/- 0.9dB). so I guess the accuracy used to be +/- 1.2dB?? Anyway, not sure I would bother re measuring my room just for that.

 

[JJunkie]

How does one know where to place the bass traps and diffusers? I have a very odd shaped room with a sloping high ceiling and several odd corners etc. Are there tools that help out? If so are they so expensive that it is cost prohibitive so you need to hire a pro? Just curious.

Typically bass traps go in corners of the room. Apparently you don't really need diffusers in small rooms. There are a number of articles online about it. I remember reading one by SOS a few years ago when I was working out what to do with my old room. My new room is on the front of the house, has a round wall full of windows. I'm like you - not really sure what to do with my wonky room shape and there is not enough wall real estate to hang absorption panels from anyway. I just put up what panels I could, laid down a rug and got sonarworks. It's as good as it's going to get in my situation without getting concerned looks from my wife (too late for that actually).

 

[yeky83]

I've said this before. Would be cool if I could connect a RTA Mic to the Axe-III, select a white noise generator signal for the unit, and it would allow me to adjust the global frequencies against what the mic is reading, in order to flatten patches for the room. I can already do this on the PA (Presonus Studio Live). But, If I'm not using a digital board, or going thru the PA, I would like to use a feature like this. Thx

You can already do this with the Axe-Fx III if you really wanted to.

But it's not a good idea since 1) RTA is the wrong tool to make adjustments for the room, and 2) it's better to do this type of thing at the FOH level.

 

[yeky83]

How does one know where to place the bass traps and diffusers? I have a very odd shaped room with a sloping high ceiling and several odd corners etc. Are there tools that help out? If so are they so expensive that it is cost prohibitive so you need to hire a pro? Just curious.

As @JJunkie said, bass traps typically go in corners first because that's where they're most effective. Diffusers, most likely not necessary in small rooms, but usually goes on the wall behind the listener. And treat the first reflection points with mid/high absorbers, on side walls and ceiling.
Then you likely have to make measurements to see what else needs to be done, most likely more bass traps. Free REW software, $50 measurement mic, and some acoustics knowledge will let you know what you need to do.

Here's a link to a lot of good resources:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stu...tics-treatment-reference-guide-look-here.html
And if you just want to pay someone, some reputable companies like GIK Acoustics that sell acoustic treatment products give free room treatment advice if you buy from them.