A last try in getting Tone- AX8 -

[Stagepig]

I wouldn't recommend trying to get your sounds close to the "original" sounds. Comparing your Tone for Live use to recordings will often cause issues. There is a big difference between studio and live tone.

When playing in a band with another guitarist it is advisable to choose some kind of sound that is different than what the other guitarist uses. For example a more trebly high mid sound on one guitar and a little more "muddier" low mid sound on the other one.
I tend to have my Mid Control always at Max for my live presets in fear of loosing too much frequency range to the other guitar player.

You could also try to run your ax8 4 Cable method through your Mesa amp to check if this solves the issue. If you encounter the same problems via 4CM either the ax8 itself has a problem or there is a wrong setting checked.

And as stated before try to dial in your sounds at gig volumes. BUT: I happen to know a guy that uses his Ax8 only with factory presets through his Fullrange monitor and sounds amazing. So at least the factory stuff should work out without dialing anything.

 

[mwd]

I was going to recommend the same vid. I've used this vid twice, once to get a friend started and once to get me started when I got the AX8 and I got a stellar sound that worked for our Strats and Pauls. I would say that if this doesn't produce a 'good' sound on your rig, even if it's not the 'exact' sound you're looking for.... then something is wrong.

Here is a vid to watch on getting a good tone.
The AX8 is by far the easiest modeler I've ever used and getting great sounds was as fast as calling up any number of presets.
This vid may shed some light.

 

[Hugh Jago]

Many thanks. I'll make sure I watch it, and take notes.
Hugh

 

[Hugh Jago]

I wouldn't recommend trying to get your sounds close to the "original" sounds. Comparing your Tone for Live use to recordings will often cause issues. There is a big difference between studio and live tone.

When playing in a band with another guitarist it is advisable to choose some kind of sound that is different than what the other guitarist uses. For example a more trebly high mid sound on one guitar and a little more "muddier" low mid sound on the other one.
I tend to have my Mid Control always at Max for my live presets in fear of loosing too much frequency range to the other guitar player.

You could also try to run your ax8 4 Cable method through your Mesa amp to check if this solves the issue. If you encounter the same problems via 4CM either the ax8 itself has a problem or there is a wrong setting checked.

And as stated before try to dial in your sounds at gig volumes. BUT: I happen to know a guy that uses his Ax8 only with factory presets through his Fullrange monitor and sounds amazing. So at least the factory stuff should work out without dialing anything.

Great advice. Thanks. I fully understand the different sound comment. It's even more valid with us as we have 3 guitars. I'm the one always trying to find the difference. This was one of the reason I was attracted to AX8. I was already to go with the set list list all loaded on the FracPad and then I hit the mud wall.
Thanks
Hugh

 

[Hugh Jago]

I was going to recommend the same vid. I've used this vid twice, once to get a friend started and once to get me started when I got the AX8 and I got a stellar sound that worked for our Strats and Pauls. I would say that if this doesn't produce a 'good' sound on your rig, even if it's not the 'exact' sound you're looking for.... then something is wrong.

Thanks. it'll be nice to get the system working again. I had every one of our set lists on the FracPad, every preset & and then it's been in it's case for the whole year.
Thanks
Hugh

 

[Hugh Jago]

Here is a vid to watch on getting a good tone.
The AX8 is by far the easiest modeler I've ever used and getting great sounds was as fast as calling up any number of presets.
This vid may shed some light.

Funny thing I did this preset some time ago. It was intended to be my go to Marshall sound. But it just didn't fit the bill when turned up.
After I've done a reset I'll have another go.
Thanks

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Low cut in the cab block is the best quick fix to cut the mud. If your monitors are on pole type stands you might be losing the cab knock. Have you tried them on the floor or on top of a solid stand? If you lose cab knock then over compensate with lows to get it back could be part of your problem. Just in general low volume tones are much easier to dial. Once you crank it up and try to mix with a band it is much more difficult but once you get there it should be better than a real rig because the sound will be more evenly distributed. I played for quite a while with my ASM while the other guy was using a half stack and my tone was better which is how I finally convinced him to lose the real cab.

 

[speedloader]

I think it's important to review the bases.

1- The fractal amps aren't muddier or darker than real tube amps. So you must work on that basis.

2- IRs aren't as good as miked cabs. You must also work on that basis.

3- At same volume, only real cabs can compete with real cabs. Unless the real cab guy has a muffled tone of course. At gig volume guitarists tend to use muffled settings to avoid hearing the flaws in their playing, more often than the other way round.

So I ask you, what is that famous good-tone-at-gig-volume everyone talks about? How does it sound?

 

[Tahoebrian5]

Item 1 above agree, items 2&3 completely disagree. Irs are very carefully micd cabs, a typical sound crew spends about 2 seconds on mic placement. I think irs are way better.

 

[Rex]

Item 1 above agree, items 2&3 completely disagree. Irs are very carefully micd cabs, a typical sound crew spends about 2 seconds on mic placement. I think irs are way better.

+1. At their best, IRs are ideally-miked cabs.

 

[jlynnb1]

also, for the tones you want I'd probably start with the Marshalls, not Fenders. ymmv

 

[mr_fender]

Try with guitar cabs instead of FRFR too. Some folks just don't bond with FRFR cabs on stage. They can sound great, but their dispersion and feel can be very different from traditional guitar cabs. It takes time to get used to hearing the mic'd sound on stage vs the live guitar cab sound. Some folks still like to have real cabs on stage for that familiar live cab thump. It's personal preference. With some creative routing on the grid, you can run IR's to FOH and real cabs on stage for your own monitoring.

Folks go through similar growing pains when switching to In-Ear monitors too. That familiar on stage loud cab thump is gone and that definitely takes some getting used to.

 

[Hugh Jago]

Well - I've done a system update and uploaded the System Presets.
I've set up a preset with a fender twin, and 2x12 hi res cab. Result an ultra clean sound. Not as much mud, but still missing some top end. The over all sound is a little behind a closed door, but better.
So I tries the Video for the marshall

At 1.36 with no alterations the video sounds like a Marshall. At the same point with just an Amp (Plexi 50 Jump) and a Cab (Weave TV MIX) I sound like an ultra clean Marshall behind a closed door.

 

[Hugh Jago]

Low cut in the cab block is the best quick fix to cut the mud. If your monitors are on pole type stands you might be losing the cab knock. Have you tried them on the floor or on top of a solid stand? If you lose cab knock then over compensate with lows to get it back could be part of your problem. Just in general low volume tones are much easier to dial. Once you crank it up and try to mix with a band it is much more difficult but once you get there it should be better than a real rig because the sound will be more evenly distributed. I played for quite a while with my ASM while the other guy was using a half stack and my tone was better which is how I finally convinced him to lose the real cab.

Thanks for the info. I'll keep plodding away.

 

[Hugh Jago]

Thanks for the info. I'll keep plodding away.

also, for the tones you want I'd probably start with the Marshalls, not Fenders. ymmv

Thanks.
I tried the video for the Marshall Plexi 50 Jump. at 1.36 the guitarist plays just the amp and Cab. No alterations to a new preset. He sounds like a Marshall. I sound like any old Ultra clean Amp and cab.
Any thoughts?

 

[RLD]

Well - I've done a system update and uploaded the System Presets.
I've set up a preset with a fender twin, and 2x12 hi res cab. Result an ultra clean sound. Not as much mud, but still missing some top end. The over all sound is a little behind a closed door, but better.
So I tries the Video for the marshall

At 1.36 with no alterations the video sounds like a Marshall. At the same point with just an Amp (Plexi 50 Jump) and a Cab (Weave TV MIX) I sound like an ultra clean Marshall behind a closed door.

Are you saying you've matched the amp settings in the vid and it doesn't sound like the vid?

 

[Hugh Jago]

Low cut in the cab block is the best quick fix to cut the mud. If your monitors are on pole type stands you might be losing the cab knock. Have you tried them on the floor or on top of a solid stand? If you lose cab knock then over compensate with lows to get it back could be part of your problem. Just in general low volume tones are much easier to dial. Once you crank it up and try to mix with a band it is much more difficult but once you get there it should be better than a real rig because the sound will be more evenly distributed. I played for quite a while with my ASM while the other guy was using a half stack and my tone was better which is how I finally convinced him to lose the real cab.

Many thanks. I've tried both floor and pole, I've tried every setting the DRX has to compensate, but with little success. The speakers are fine as we use them for FOH and fills when hard rigged. I'll see Wednesday how they perform with a bit of Band volume being pushed out from the AX8

 

[Hugh Jago]

Try with guitar cabs instead of FRFR too. Some folks just don't bond with FRFR cabs on stage. They can sound great, but their dispersion and feel can be very different from traditional guitar cabs. It takes time to get used to hearing the mic'd sound on stage vs the live guitar cab sound. Some folks still like to have real cabs on stage for that familiar live cab thump. It's personal preference. With some creative routing on the grid, you can run IR's to FOH and real cabs on stage for your own monitoring.

Folks go through similar growing pains when switching to In-Ear monitors too. That familiar on stage loud cab thump is gone and that definitely takes some getting used to.

Thanks, what amplifier do you use to drive guitar cab?

 

[Moke]

Forgive me if this has been addressed already, But are your 'Global EQ' set flat? And have you changed any other 'Global' settings?

 

[Hugh Jago]

Are you saying you've matched the amp settings in the vid and it doesn't sound like the vid?

Yes. I followed the video, used exactly the same settings as the guitarist on the Amp and the cab. When he plays at 1.36 he sounds like a Marshall. I sound very clean. No 'hair' as the video guitarist calls it.