Cliff, Get rid of the older firmware modeling options to free up space!!

Older firmware modeling option

  • Remove it. I can live without it.

    Votes: 398 94.3%

  • Leave it. I have to have it.

    Votes: 24 5.7%
  • Total voters
    422
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jesussaddle said:
It's just that in the future it doesn't make it a priority for the owners/developers to maintain that feature at the expense of others, in case it might make their franchise appear less customer friendly, by decreasing the upgrade length of a main or majority product (again, if it is, I don't know. If Its not a product with a great share of users (comparable to the others), then I would probably view this thing relative to the percentages, trying to do what's right for Fractal).
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Fractal Audio has offered customers an upgrade lifecycle that's as long (or longer) than practically any other modeling company in the business, and updates have been offered on a far more frequent basis as well, in my opinion. Even provided that the rollback functionality were to remain and that the most current update happens to be the last for MK users, the upgrade lifecycle for the MK I and II is on par with that of the original Axe-FX(5 years). Thus, should Fractal Audio choose to retain the rollback functionality, I feel any perception that the company is somehow less user friendly as a result is completely baseless. I think most owners would agree that their overall track record of customer satisfaction is far too extensive, and I strongly doubt that this particular issue would act as an impediment to any prospective buyer considering a purchase. I'm dubious it would even register as a blip on their radar.
 
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I'm all for new firmware and improvements, I think with a little tweaking you can get any of the old sounds.
Is there anyway to expand the boot rom on the mk1?
 
i just voted remove it. cliff is far too nice. there's lots of fw's available, just choose which one you think gives you the best sound. maybe you like 2 firmwares? buy 2 axe fx units woohooooo!!!
 
seclusion said:
I've never went back on firmware modeling.
So no biggy loss for what I do to just have current firmware.
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You'd generally only use the rollback option for older presets that rely on older firmware to maintain their sound while using the most current firmware to create new presets.
 
Because the small percentage of extremely vocal owners that visit and post on the forums should make the choice for all owners right?
 
:eek:
Jason Scott said:
Fractal Audio has offered customers an upgrade lifecycle that's as long (or longer) than practically any other modeling company in the business, and updates have been offered on a far more frequent basis as well, in my opinion. Even provided that the rollback functionality were to remain and that the most current update happens to be the last for MK users, the upgrade lifecycle for the MK I and II is on par with that of the original Axe-FX(5 years). Thus, should Fractal Audio choose to retain the rollback functionality, I feel any perception that the company is somehow less user friendly as a result is completely baseless. I think most owners would agree that their overall track record of customer satisfaction is far too extensive, and I strongly doubt that this particular issue would act as an impediment to any prospective buyer considering a purchase. I'm dubious it would even register as a blip on their radar.
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An alternative way of looking at it is maybe because their reputation is so fantastic, little things can tend to be overblown.

I use an HP Laserjet 2200 DT at work, which I think came out in the 1990's. For network use I can't fudge the driver to work with Windows 7, but XP works great. HP hadn't fully figured out planned obsolescence in the 1990's.

The 'political' [and media] crime families should be obsolete; I don't think the Axe II is yet.

(But yes, these days, 5 years is a very long run for any small scale product, because printers these days seem designed to be more trouble than they are worth after 3-4 years, maintenance-wise. While a car is going to last longer, we're talking a price tag of many, many times what a Fractal product costs.)

I'm with you though, it would not make a great difference for most prospective buyers, barring the unforeseen.

But I really didn't think I'd had my Axe FX II (purchased a few months after it came out) for that long. Let me check my ID, I might be much older than I thought...

Oh crap!

My day is ruined! My day is ruined! :eek:
 
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As of this time, nearly 95% of users have voted to remove the option to choose older modelling on the Mk1/2 vs missing out on newest updates..It makes a lot of sense, cause those few from the other camp may just choose not to upgrade..
Hope this feedback is taken by Fractal, a company which I've seen that really listens to its customers and takes every feedback seriously...fingers crossed this time!
 
slash07 said:
As of this time, nearly 95% of users have voted to remove the option to choose older modelling on the Mk1/2 vs missing out on newest updates..It makes a lot of sense, cause those few from the other camp may just choose not to upgrade..
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No, it likely wouldn't stop anyone from upgrading. It would just serve as a pain in the ass to people who have to update all of their older presets by hand every time they do upgrade.
 
Jason Scott said:
No, it likely wouldn't stop anyone from upgrading. It would just serve as a pain in the ass to people who have to update all of their older presets by hand every time they do upgrade.
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in which case they can either choose not to upgrade, or get a a hardware upgrade to the XL/+..
My guess is that most others wouldn't mind risking preset changes to an upgrade, they can anyways back up their present, upgrade. Get back to their older sound if necessary after downgrading to the prior version and restoring the preset..
If the older modelling is taken off on Mk1/2 to free up space, it would keep most people happy given the constraint of space on the Mk1/2
 
slash07 said:
As of this time, nearly 95% of users have voted to remove the option to choose older modelling on the Mk1/2 vs missing out on newest updates..It makes a lot of sense, cause those few from the other camp may just choose not to upgrade..
Hope this feedback is taken by Fractal, a company which I've seen that really listens to its customers and takes every feedback seriously...fingers crossed this time!
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But again, the problem is that the MK I/II and XL/XL+ all run on the same firmware. So in order to take this ability away from MK users to free up space, you must also take it away from XL users who have no need to free up space. So you are effecting a group who has no need for features to be removed...
 
slash07 said:
in which case they can either choose not to upgrade, or get a a hardware upgrade to the XL/+..
My guess is that most others wouldn't mind risking preset changes to an upgrade, they can anyways back up their present, upgrade. Get back to their older sound if necessary after downgrading to the prior version and restoring the preset..
If the older modelling is taken off on Mk1/2 to free up space, it would keep most people happy given the constraint of space on the Mk1/2
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I don't think you're understanding. If the ability to choose the modeling firmware version was removed, it would be removed from everything, not just the MkI and MkII. So, upgrading to an XL/XL+ wouldn't do dick.
-
Austin
 
slash07 said:
in which case they can either choose not to upgrade, or get a a hardware upgrade to the XL/+..
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How would upgrading to an XL make any difference?

slash07 said:
My guess is that most others wouldn't mind risking preset changes to an upgrade, they can anyways back up their present, upgrade. Get back to their older sound if necessary after downgrading to the prior version and restoring the preset..
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Not practical for people who play live, and it's a bit of a pain in the ass for people who want/need quick access to older presets.

slash07 said:
If the older modelling is taken off on Mk1/2 to free up space, it would keep most people happy given the constraint of space on the Mk1/2
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In my opinion, it's not worth removing the rollback functionality if the payoff would only result in an additional 3 or 4 updates for MK users.
 
Jason Scott said:
You'd generally only use the rollback option for older presets that rely on older firmware to maintain their sound while using the most current firmware to create new presets.
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I don't know what the basis is for the assumption above, but I'd say it's not correct.

Also, the rollback option by itself does not suffice to maintain the sound of older presets, because it applies to power amp modeling only.
 
yek said:
the rollback option by itself does not suffice to maintain the sound of older presets, because it applies to power amp modeling only.
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You mean preamp?

My assumption was based on the release notes for firmware version 2.03, though after a more thorough perusal, it appears the rollback feature only affects the Preamp Hardness, Preamp Bias and Harmonics parameters.
 
Jason Scott said:
How would upgrading to an XL make any difference?

Not practical for people who play live, and it's a bit of a pain in the ass for people who want/need quick access to older presets.

In my opinion, it's not worth removing the rollback functionality if the payoff would only result in an additional 3 or 4 updates for MK users.
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That is the question isn't it? I.e. the cost in boot ram of providing the modeling algorithm *1, or *infinity...?

At first I might assume that if this feature were at such a high cost, that Cliff probably wouldn't have done it in the first place. But 'high cost' of memory relative to 2011 hardware may be very little cost relative to presently available hardware. I guess we just won't know until it is the right time to know.

But still, I'm guessing that there is very little of the amp emulation characteristics that can't be modeled using the latest firmware, given the knowledge and time. Is that true? Or am I wrong? Anyway, since so few of us have this sort of knowledge, or evidently this sort of time, I can really see where it could be a challenge to whatever group of users are effected negatively.

I just bought FL Studio 12, and for about an hour I was struggling to get a handle on setting up my 400+ plugins, MIDI and Audio settings, etc., etc. In doing so I was considering all the marvels and pitfalls of the DAW world. As a fairly green user of Reaper (for recording) I was never satisfied with its MIDI composing flow - although for skilled players there really isn't an issue, its us JA's of all trades, masters of none who have so many different skillsets. To be a developer in this environment of greater and greater functionality and more and more user-overwhelm must be daunting.

Fortunately, FL Studio seems to have been a decent purchase - as I also own Ableton Live and the differences in direction of development are really staggering.

Being a "convert" and "faithful" has little to do with it. Branching off and being original is what makes certain companies great. Just keep developing with a glad heart knowing all you've done for us Fractal.
 
I am not sure if someone has already said that, but it seems pretty straightforward to me:
Option 1: do not remove older firmware modeling - > no more firmware upgrades - > users who want this will remain on 4.01 anyway

Option 2: remove it - > we get new versions

So if you think option 1 is the best for you just pretend it was the chosen alternative and stop reading the new firmware announcements as it would be the last firmware in this case anyway. Please believe I am not trying to be rude. It just seems to make much more sense to remove it.

(I have just read the part XL/XL+ users would also be affected. It is not that straightforward then. I am happy with my MK II and will remain that way until I upgrade to the AxeFX III when FAS decides to sell it. It would be a pity to no longer participate on Cliff's relentless pursuit for perfection though. I am fine with whatever Cliff decides. I just want to thank him and FAS for the past few years and an amazing ride.)
 
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The argument is moot at this point, Fractal said they will cross the bridge when they get to it. Depending on the rate of his changing the modeling and or adding blocks (both have kind of slowed as of late) it'll still be a while. Guys can continue to get all warm and fuzzy about their q2.02 recto djent tonez, only available in that specific version.
 
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