My general thoughts on Axe Edit and the Fractal Approach.

Moke said:
But the last part.........?????? I just re-read all 37 posts and the only one that mentions the word 'Replicate' was Matts off topic (but very true) post?
Click to expand...
i was referring to this

Well that depends upon what you are trying to achieve. If you are just trying to find anything you like then you can do what ever you like. If you are trying to get an authentic tone of the particular piece of gear being modelled then it is much easier to zero in if there are not a whole bunch of extraneous parameters that don't exist on the unit.

When there are soooo many options it is easy for people to get lost among them and it is often off putting to many people too. If they know that parameters a, b and c are the only knobs on the real device then they won't feel the need to try parameters x,y and z to get a quick authentic representation of the real thing. But of course x,y and z are there if you choose to experiment.
Click to expand...

vs this

That being said, the learning curve was long and I still lack confidence when trying a new amp of effects as the parameters are the same for every amp, so I don't really know which ones the amp's builder thought were the key ones needed to dial it in. I would really like an additional tab for each amp or pedal in Axe Edit that had just the original controls for that amp or pedal. That would be so cool. Really, we would have our cake and eat it too. No one could fault the Axe for being too complicated ever again, as they could just live on that one tab's control for each block, and all the existing other tabs could be used for advanced tweaking. Simple and effective for everyone.
Click to expand...

i'm just pointing out that those are 2 separate things. some want to be more authentic, hence replicating an original amp. others want the "basic" tab to help make it easier to use.
 
I'll throw in another "yes" vote for a tab in Axe-Edit that shows and amp's native controls. (Also nice for effects blocks, but amps would be my priority.) And for me, it'd be about quick and streamlined dialing in of a workable tone that suits my needs, as opposed to trying to replicate anything (or anyone) specific.
 
I think this would be a great idea. If I want to setup a sound with a phase 90 or 45, I know exactly where I want that single dial set and would prefer to have a 'native' mode where only that single dial shows up that works exactly the same way as the pedal. Why do some people find that weird? It's just an option of a page that only shows what the original device has.
Also, when mentioning replicate, it is always assumed that people are trying to replicate someone else's sound. What if they are trying to replicate 'their own' sound from gear they use outside of the AXEFX? This is not chasing another guitarists tone, its about replicating past rigs or equipment used in the studio where those sounds need to be replicated live.
 
I think the general idea is a great one. This is much the way I approach when beginning to dial in a tone. I have owned a JCM800. So when I begin to dial in a JCM800 patch I start with tweaking the controls the same as I would on a real JCM800. Meaning I only dial on the B/M/T/P/Pre/Master. then I will later go in and tweak advanced parameters, like I was modding the amp so to speak.

I don't think anyone is talking about replicating a person's sound, merely that if I am working with a JCM800 it would be cool to have a native tab that only displays the parameters that are on the real deal so those are the only controls visible.

I personally just ignore the others, but there are amps I am not familiar with loaded in here, ALOT of them. So it would be cool to just see what controls the amp actually has without having to google the amp. But in reality all we are really talking about here is input trim, saturation controls, depth and possibly presence in most cases. IMO easy enough to ignore, but I could very much see the usefulness of this idea.
 
vinnyburns said:
I think this would be a great idea. If I want to setup a sound with a phase 90 or 45, I know exactly where I want that single dial set and would prefer to have a 'native' mode where only that single dial shows up that works exactly the same way as the pedal. Why do some people find that weird? It's just an option of a page that only shows what the original device has.
Also, when mentioning replicate, it is always assumed that people are trying to replicate someone else's sound. What if they are trying to replicate 'their own' sound from gear they use outside of the AXEFX? This is not chasing another guitarists tone, its about replicating past rigs or equipment used in the studio where those sounds need to be replicated live.
Click to expand...

This is a great point.

The "native" interface is not always about copying an artist's settings.

It's about replicating my own pedals.

And learning new (simulated) gear "natively".

There is so much "prior art" here. Lot's of companies have these types of interfaces. They are popular for a reason. They appeal to a lot of customers. Power users and Noobs alike. I'm both :)
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
May I ask: are you considering some of the advanced controls like Sag or Transformer Match or Negative Feedback as possible "key ones" needed to dial an amp in? I'm trying to collect information, it's a serious question. Thanks!
Click to expand...
I do use those controls (neg feedback, sag, xfrm match) on every amp I use but not at first when dialing it in for the best basic tone I can get, so I think the best approach would be to just have one additional tab for each block that just has the controls that are native to that real block, labeled as they are on the real block (or as close as possible). The other tabs should just remain as they are today so that everyone familiar with the current Axe interface can still use it the same way as it is now, and allows us to find the advanced parameters where they are now.
 
It would be much less work to change the color of the 'native' controls in Axe-Edit. Maybe make it optional for those who don't like it.
 
guitarzen said:
I do use those controls (neg feedback, sag, xfrm match) on every amp I use but not at first when dialing it in for the best basic tone I can get, so I think the best approach would be to just have one additional tab for each block that just has the controls that are native to that real block, labeled as they are on the real block (or as close as possible). The other tabs should just remain as they are today so that everyone familiar with the current Axe interface can still use it the same way as it is now, and allows us to find the advanced parameters where they are now.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Would you say those few advanced controls are necessary for you to use? You mention you use them on every amp. How does it sound when you leave them at default? I know I'm going a bit off topic, but I'm trying to figure some things out. Might you think of those as "less-advanced" advanced controls at this point?
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
Thanks for the info. Would you say those few advanced controls are necessary for you to use? You mention you use them on every amp. How does it sound when you leave them at default? I know I'm going a bit off topic, but I'm trying to figure some things out. Might you think of those as "less-advanced" advanced controls at this point?
Click to expand...
Yes, I really like the effect that those few advanced parameters have on the tone and would miss them if they weren't available. I would consider those les advanced, as I don't really touch much else except for maybe dynamic character. For my tastes I like a bright tone, similar to what you hear on isolated tracks to cut through a mix. For me reducing xfmr match to 0.78 really makes the tone brighter and clearer for my setup, gets rid of some minor "wet blanket" muffle that I perceive. Sag I adjust for juiciness or bounciness as a secondary effect type parameter, and neg feedback I would also put into that secondary effect bucket as I adjust it for mean-ness or distortion character. Out of those 3 parameters I could probably leave sag and neg feedback alone and be OK, but xfmr match seems to be more universal and necessary for me for some reason that I don't really understand.
 
Here's a good example. The Morgan AC20, one of the more popular amps in the box. 3 knobs. Ignore the switches, those are represented by the different channels available in the Axe. Sure you can ignore everything but the gain, cut and master on the Axe/in Axe Edit...but it may be more intuitive to have only those 3 controls represented in the GUI.

image.jpeg
 
jlynnb1 said:
Here's a good example. The Morgan AC20, one of the more popular amps in the box. 3 knobs. Ignore the switches, those are represented by the different channels available in the Axe. Sure you can ignore everything but the gain, cut and master on the Axe/in Axe Edit...but it may be more intuitive to have only those 3 controls represented in the GUI.

View attachment 31599
Click to expand...
man i wouldn't think of using that amp model without touching the EQ though. is all that work to make Edit show only those 3 controls really worth it?
 
guitarzen said:
Yes, I really like the effect that those few advanced parameters have on the tone and would miss them if they weren't available. I would consider those les advanced, as I don't really touch much else except for maybe dynamic character. For my tastes I like a bright tone, similar to what you hear on isolated tracks to cut through a mix. For me reducing xfmr match to 0.78 really makes the tone brighter and clearer for my setup, gets rid of some minor "wet blanket" muffle that I perceive. Sag I adjust for juiciness or bounciness as a secondary effect type parameter, and neg feedback I would also put into that secondary effect bucket as I adjust it for mean-ness or distortion character. Out of those 3 parameters I could probably leave sag and neg feedback alone and be OK, but xfmr match seems to be more universal and necessary for me for some reason that I don't really understand.
Click to expand...
AGREE 100%
 
guitarzen said:
Yes, I really like the effect that those few advanced parameters have on the tone and would miss them if they weren't available. I would consider those les advanced, as I don't really touch much else except for maybe dynamic character. For my tastes I like a bright tone, similar to what you hear on isolated tracks to cut through a mix. For me reducing xfmr match to 0.78 really makes the tone brighter and clearer for my setup, gets rid of some minor "wet blanket" muffle that I perceive. Sag I adjust for juiciness or bounciness as a secondary effect type parameter, and neg feedback I would also put into that secondary effect bucket as I adjust it for mean-ness or distortion character. Out of those 3 parameters I could probably leave sag and neg feedback alone and be OK, but xfmr match seems to be more universal and necessary for me for some reason that I don't really understand.
Click to expand...
Nobody, I mean Nobody has suggested removing ANY parameters. Even casually mentioning this will confuse this discussion. All of the parameters will (hopefully) remain exactly where the currently are. There could just be an additional tab in each block labeled 'Native'? Or possibly a 'Global' 'Native Mode' button in 'Axe-Edit'?
 
jlynnb1 said:
Here's a good example. The Morgan AC20, one of the more popular amps in the box. 3 knobs. Ignore the switches, those are represented by the different channels available in the Axe. Sure you can ignore everything but the gain, cut and master on the Axe/in Axe Edit...but it may be more intuitive to have only those 3 controls represented in the GUI.

View attachment 31599
Click to expand...

But don't you think maybe many of the amps would have to be re-done-possobly. What I mean is..does Cliff have an algorithm for CUT and VOLUME alone as they work in the Morgan? And please don't just say CUT, we don't know that, only Cliff does.Or some other control on another boutique amp like TONE? Many parms are dependent on others. It something to consider in all of this.

I would love basic\advanced, etc in AE, if they can add 5 more screens to AE, far out if it helps someone. Hopefully I am explaining what I mean correctly.
 
jlynnb1 said:
Well I guess it's two mindsets. One wants to use the amp as intended on the actual amp and those that want to sculpt it into something else based on their needs/wants. Both are 100% valid.
Click to expand...
as mentioned above, maybe there isn't a "cut" knob on the Axe that does exactly what that Morgan cut knob does. perhaps that's the reason it isn't being done or considered in the past? like i mentioned earlier with the Speed knob on the Phase 90. that Rate knob might be doing something different than the Rate parameter in the Axe Phaser block? i mean, this concept does make complete sense, of course - you model an amp, so have the controls of that amp. but with so many amps, it does make sense to have similar controls as well for ease of use. hard to say. i'm sure there's a complicated reason this hasn't been implemented over the years.

with regards to the Morgan specifically, i'm not even thinking about "sculpting something to my needs." i just choose the amp type and make it sound 'good' to me. that's how i've always used the amp block in the axe. :)
 
I know there could be instances where there may not be a 1:1 match for a certain control, but when it comes to amps it usually does. The amp I used as an example, it's a simple hi-cut control like what is found in most Vox type circuits.

I mean, even the notes on some amps talk about ignoring certain controls that aren't present on the original amps...that's essentially what this gui would do.

Just playing devil's advocate here.
 
I proposed (way back in the day) that there was a Global control for "simple" and "expert" that toggled between the actual (aka minimum) and the standard Fractal 'parameter overload' options in Axe-Edit *only* as a way of helping people that know specific amps just get their settings dialed quickly and getting on with it. It's never been added to the road map.

I think it's a good idea still based on threads like this (*that have popped up from time to time over the years). I think there it is a valid and interesting topic. At the same time, I have no issues dialing up amps I know how to dial with the 'parameter overload' Fractal way either... so it's of no real consequence in the end to me. Because in the end, it's the tone that works for the player that matters... not so much 'how' you get there. As an interface ease of use feature? Yes. As a requirement to nail tones? No.

IMHO, YMMV.
 
Moke said:
Nobody, I mean Nobody has suggested removing ANY parameters. Even casually mentioning this will confuse this discussion. All of the parameters will (hopefully) remain exactly where the currently are. There could just be an additional tab in each block labeled 'Native'? Or possibly a 'Global' 'Native Mode' button in 'Axe-Edit'?
Click to expand...
Sorry Moke, I didn't mean to confuse the discussion. My suggestion is exactly this - just add a tab that has the original parameters for that Amp or Block and leave everything else exactly as it is. And if the graphics for that tab looked like the amp face or drive pedal, etc, even in a generic way not exactly like the original, it would be even cooler.
 
Stratman68 said:
But don't you think maybe many of the amps would have to be re-done-possobly. What I mean is..does Cliff have an algorithm for CUT and VOLUME alone as they work in the Morgan? And please don't just say CUT, we don't know that, only Cliff does.Or some other control on another boutique amp like TONE? Many parms are dependent on others. It something to consider in all of this.

I would love basic\advanced, etc in AE, if they can add 5 more screens to AE, far out if it helps someone. Hopefully I am explaining what I mean correctly.
Click to expand...
Well according to the Wiki....."For authenticity, keep all tone controls in the models except Hi-Cut at default"....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom