Paypal sucks!!

pat6969

pat6969

Inspired
I know it's a convenient way to pay but man, do they put you through the wringer!! I'm tired of waiting for an AX8 so I was going to give up my day 1 wait list position and buy either a used XL/MFC combo or a Kemper rack/remote combo, turns out that our dollar is worth about 73 cents right now, which is OK with me, it is what it is, but on top of that, Paypal charges me another 3%!!! So I get 70 cents on the dollar when I use paypal! What a joke, another way for them to screw the customer. Might not seem like much but on 3K its almost another $100. Oh well, back to waiting and sorry for the rant!
 
PayPal fees apply to the seller, not the buyer. If you are BUYING an XL/MFC, you pay nothing in fees. Of course, the seller is probably factoring that in to the selling price. I feel 3% fee is fair for the service and protection they are offering. They are a business that has expenses to cover while hopefully making a profit.
 
jamn4jc said:
PayPal fees apply to the seller, not the buyer. If you are BUYING an XL/MFC, you pay nothing in fees. Of course, the seller is probably factoring that in to the selling price. I feel 3% fee is fair for the service and protection they are offering. They are a business that has expenses to cover while hopefully making a profit.
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I've been using paypal for 20 years, I'm aware the seller pays 3%. What I'm saying is, I'm in Canada, the exchange rate right now is 73 cents on the US dollar. If I pay through Paypal, they give me 70 cents on the dollar, that's 3% lower than it should be. So the buyer pays the 3% and I pay an extra 3% in conversion. Seems to be some double dipping going on, but I'm sure they make it sound like it's necessary.
 
Yes, paypal is a steal, they take 3 to 5% depending on the location of buyers/sellers...
A cheaper alternative does not exist so that's sad :(
 
I'm not sure how you think PayPal will be able to stay a business if they don't make any money at all? Of course they are going to take a percentage if you are using their services man. That's how the world works. 3% is actually extremely low. Ever sold something on eBay? Now that's something to complain about.
 
Yes that's why i don't sell anymore on ebay, and ebay gets down and down without understanding their price is the cause ^^
3% is a steal for a bank transfer, it's just a message sent from a computer to another one. I understand 3% on <$100 is correct but come on, i've bought a €1600 guitar and paid €55 just for the paypal transfer !
And when you have a problem with a seller, they put their best efforts to avoid to refund you, so the insurance argument is not totally valid...
 
AlGrenadine said:
Yes that's why i don't sell anymore on ebay, and ebay gets down and down without understanding their price is the cause ^^
3% is a steal for a bank transfer, it's just a message sent from a computer to another one. I understand 3% on <$100 is correct but come on, i've bought a €1600 guitar and paid €55 just for the paypal transfer !
And when you have a problem with a seller, they put their best efforts to avoid to refund you, so the insurance argument is not totally valid...
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Really? I am a puzzle designer, builder, seller and buyer, and I constantly use PayPal. I've never had a problem getting money back from them.

I do agree that 3% of 1600 is a lot, but keep in mind that we also don't know what it takes to run PayPal. Who knows if they'd be able to continue to run if they only charged people a 3 dollar flat fee. They might also rely on the bigger transfers.

PayPal is actually cheap compared to pretty much everything else that's out there. If people don't want to pay fees, then spend the money to travel to where that other person is and give them the cash in person. You want to send money through the mail, pay for it. Bank transfer, pay for it. PayPal, pay for it. Western Union, pay for it. It's like some people don't understand that the companies they use to do money transfers have to make money, and their services aren't free. 3% is LOW.

I'm unsure why the OP has to say PayPal sucks, when they are better than pretty much everywhere else, just because of 3%. Nobody's forcing him to use PayPal, he could just go somewhere else and pay more. He also says PayPal is giving him 70 on the dollar. No, the governments are giving him 73 on the dollar, and PayPal is just doing what they always do, which is stay a business with 3%. Big deal.
 
I'm sure they make big big money... My bank takes 1% for bank cards transfer and my bank's wealthy...
Anyway, there's definitely room for cheapers bank services. Maybe something collaborative...


But for the OP, i can understand him, the problem is buyers want to use paypal now everybody knows paypal. When there wasn't paypal i already sold guitars on the internet with regular bank transfers/checks, but now you can't anymore
 
CrazyBadGuitarist said:
I'm not sure how you think PayPal will be able to stay a business if they don't make any money at all? Of course they are going to take a percentage if you are using their services man. That's how the world works. 3% is actually extremely low. Ever sold something on eBay? Now that's something to complain about.
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I fully understand this, that is why they charge the seller 3%, to make their cut. But if you look at charging me another 3% to convert my CAD into USD??? Come on man??? You really think charging me 3% to convert money is fair? Really?
 
pat6969 said:
I fully understand this, that is why they charge the seller 3%, to make their cut. But if you look at charging me another 3% to convert my CAD into USD??? Come on man??? You really think charging me 3% to convert money is fair? Really?
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Well again, you don't know PayPal's business logistics and it very well may cost them to convert it too. Maybe the program they use that converts it isn't their program and they buy a license to use a third party program and that cost has to be covered, and then a bit of profit on top most likely, because they are a profit making business after all. I don't know, I just don't understand why people need to complain when they use a service that needs to be paid for, without actually finding out why it needs to be financially covered. Don't get me wrong, I hate paying fees for this that and everything these days too, but I'm not going to blindly say something sucks because of it due to my own lack of knowledge around it. That's just me though.
 
pat6969 said:
I fully understand this, that is why they charge the seller 3%, to make their cut. But if you look at charging me another 3% to convert my CAD into USD??? Come on man??? You really think charging me 3% to convert money is fair? Really?
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Yes. Money conversion and international money transfer is wickedly complicated.
 
I would call PP and find out why but my guess is they will tell you it's because they can, and I agree with you it sounds like a slippery but legal way for them to make money.
 
Sixstring said:
I would call PP and find out why but my guess is they will tell you it's because they can, and I agree with you it sounds like a slippery but legal way for them to make money.
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Why is it slippery? Any currency conversion costs money. It's a service. Paying for it is to be expected.
 
Mastercard and Visa have always charged merchant fees to sellers but I don't think they charge buyers anything certainly no extra for CAN to USD conversion. I could be wrong (EDIT - I was definitely wrong!!.. they typically charge 2.5%, depends on the card). 3% seems a bit steep in any event.

Anyway, I'm guessing OP is in Canada (.73 dollar). The best way to offset some of this exchange rate pain is to SELL some gear on Ebay or Reverb. List your easily-shippable items in USD. Fees suck (particularly Ebay's), but the exchange rate makes up for it and will make you happy when it's working in your favor.

Old pedals make great candidates, but I've shipped bigger boxes and a few guitars this year too.
 
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pat6969 said:
I've been using paypal for 20 years, I'm aware the seller pays 3%. What I'm saying is, I'm in Canada, the exchange rate right now is 73 cents on the US dollar. If I pay through Paypal, they give me 70 cents on the dollar, that's 3% lower than it should be. So the buyer pays the 3% and I pay an extra 3% in conversion. Seems to be some double dipping going on, but I'm sure they make it sound like it's necessary.
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International transaction fee?
 
Robboman said:
Mastercard and Visa have always charged merchant fees to sellers but I don't think they charge buyers anything.. certainly no extra for CAN to USD conversion. I could be wrong. 3% seems a bit steep in any event.

Anyway, I'm guessing OP is in Canada (.73 dollar). The best way to offset some of this exchange rate pain is to SELL some gear on Ebay or Reverb. List your easily-shippable items in USD. Fees suck (particularly Ebay's), but the exchange rate makes up for it and will make you happy when it's working in your favor.

Old pedals make great candidates, but I've shipped bigger boxes and a few guitars this year too.
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Second that, only don't use ebay. They charge a 10% fee, including on shipping, whereas Reverb.com only charges 3.5%. Also, Reverb offers Direct Checkout, which is much easier to use than paypal, only charges 2.7% for credit card payment, and doesn't withhold seller's money for 3 weeks <---that's a reason paypal sucks.
 
The best way to offset this is to maintain a USD account and buy USDs when the exchange rate is more favorable. That's the best way. But it requires work and forethought. If you're not going to do the work, you have to expect to pay someone else to do it. That's what the exchange fees cover, in essence.
 
sandmannn69 said:
Second that, only don't use ebay. They charge a 10% fee, including on shipping, whereas Reverb.com only charges 3.5%. Also, Reverb offers Direct Checkout, which is much easier to use than paypal, only charges 2.7% for credit card payment, and doesn't withhold seller's money for 3 weeks <---that's a reason paypal sucks.
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Have you had success selling on Reverb though? Ebay has a much bigger audience of buyers. Looking at Reverb as a buyer it seems like everything is priced too high compared to Feebay.
 
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