Back to the drawing board

G

geoangus

Inspired
For those out there playing covers and using an Axe, how many presets are you running?

When I picked up my XL back in February, I envisioned dialing in the tones for the cover tunes we play was going to be awesome. I quickly dove into the factory presets, building up a pallette of incredible tones. But the last month has become a headache due to frustration in trying to balance output volume levels across 30+ presets. What was I thinking?

Looking back at what I’ve created, I think I realize the error of my noob ways, attempting to do too much without building the foundation of how blocks interact. While I might still have one or two song specific presets, I’m thinking I need to start over and simplify. Will I be on the right path if I were to:

1) Limit amp/cab selection to 2 or 3 and build global amp blocks
2) Take more of a stompbox approach (initially) and build my signal path as if I were assembling a new board, as opposed to trying to sound like something specific
3) Limit scenes to clean, crunch and boost for leads.

I'm really driving myself nuts fighting my over ambitiousness, but I've got to reboot my approach. Any advice you can offer to help me get back on track would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks all!
 
There's no right or wrong approach. you do whatever works for you. personally, i use about 10 presets, plus a few more song-specific ones on top. i don't use scenes, just stomp box on/off for fx ...but that may not be the best way to go for you. 30 presets does sound a lot and level matching is definitely the biggest challenge when you have as many as that. i use the Waves Level Meter to get all my presets in the ballpark and then (because i'm not using scenes) i have two buttons on my footswitch assigned to cc35 and cc36, so i can make volume adjustments on the fly. a couple of gigs in and any new presets are basically sorted.
have a think about your setlist and maybe write down every tune and which presets you could use with it - the bespoke one and one other that you have. see if you can reduce the overall number you need. maybe adding a chorus here, or a rotary there, or tweaking a delay or two might enable you to condense 30+ down to something more manageable...
remember that the average punter won't be able to hear the difference between a plexi and a jcm800....and even if they could...they wouldn't care...
 
I went through this exact scenario. All of my presets were created at low volume. I set all preset and scene volumes as close to 0.0 as possible using the built in VU meters then adjust them at rehearsal levels by ear. It's a process but there really is no easy way around it. I use some basic presets and some with up to 8 scenes... some with crazy synth sounds and effects so it definitely took some time to get them close. Using global amps and cabs will definitely help. Copying blocks (EQ, comp, etc.) across presets will help as well. For me, the stompbox approach just wont cut it so I took the time to level my presets.
 
You'll find as many opinions as posts on this, so I will throw mine into the hat.

We do 4 hours of music a night, and I use 4 patches for nearly all of it. I have two patches for songs that are so odd they need their own sound to cover effectively. The other 40-odd songs are on a clean, crunch, and drive patch, and a solo patch. I have a filter and a drive pedal on the first three so I can just boost them as a solo sound when needed. It has worked for years.

The fact is most players go all night on one amp, with a few pedals, and maybe a few amp channels. The average listener doesn't really pick up on it. In my Mesa days, no one ever said "Hey, what are you trying to pull? That's supposed to be a Hiwatt there!" If you play the song well, few if any will care (except the guitar players in the audience, a fraction of a percent).

I'm not knocking the "preset per song" concept. If it works for you, by all means, use it. The Axe Fx is great for that, even designed to support it. For me, too much effort for too little return. Fewer really good presets just sound more cohesive and let me concentrate on my guitar instead of my foot controller. That's my suggestion. YMMV

PS- I am looking into scenes as a way to make my setup even a bit more streamlined. I can see a lot of possibilities there.
 
I cant imagine having a preset per song... for a general cover band I setup a clean, marshally crunch, and a chunky heavy tone, and then a lead patch with some delay etc. For my AIC tribute, I use about 10 patches and make use of scenes, but I use a global amp so i dont have to update 10 patches.
 
We have a set list of about 20 songs, I use two presets for 90% of it. Then one extra preset for a song that requires a pitch shift thing in the middle. If required, I could easily do a gig with one preset, and just use the guitar volume knob. JCM800, goes from clean to mean with guitar volume.

You might want to try limiting the IR's to one or two. That way, you'll have a "base sound" that stays pretty constant. Then have a handful of amps and effects for different tones.
 
I have 30-40 presets, some of which are general use, and others are specific to certain songs. My band play more rock sets in pubs, and more pop stuff in clubs, so we have to cover a lot of ground stylistically. We are adding new tunes all the time, so as new ones come in, more presets.....
 
Out of 40 songs I'll use 20 odd presets.
Is it a headache to level them? Yes
Is it worth it? Yes
I love being able to have so many tones at my disposal.
Not everyone has the luxury of having their own soundman (we do) so unbalanced levels get fixed on the fly.
But even if we didn't, I would do it this way because I can.
Would anyone notice if I used one amp or 20? Probably not, but I'm playing for me first.
 
I have a clean patch, gritty patch, dirty patch, heavy patch, and lead patch. This make life so much easier.
 
I do 3 hours of covers per gig, everything from Folsom Prison to Bohemian Rhapsody, With or Without You, Killing in the Name of, etc. I have 4 presets that can get me through most of the gig. The scenes get me from clean to solo, with a clean/chorus scene for piezo/acoustic sounds. I use tap tempo for delays to get a slapback or longer delays and my 3 expressions are for delay level, wah, and volume. This can cover a lot of ground. For songs like Bohemian and WOWY, and Rage I have song specific presets. After that, I have presets I set up to try and dial in a certain guitar player such as Van Halen, Gilmour, The Beatles (which can vary, but I tend to focus on cleaner sounds), etc. I'll go to those for me for fun or so the band and guitar players in the bar give me high-fives. These are always a work in progress, and I want to add more. But my first 4 presets are what I use for most of my work.
 
slinky005 said:
but I'm playing for me first.
Click to expand...
Absolutely, this is it...... If your happy with one amp and a bunch of stomps do it that way, if you feel happier with 20 amps do it that way. Personally creating the sound is half the fun. I also like to have as close to the sound I used in the studio to record the track when I play it live, no-one else cares but it makes me happy :)
 
I started off like the OP but have changed to just a few presets. I just didn't want that much work to maintain a large number of presets.

My "main" preset is an edge of break up 5E3 tweed. I control the break up with the guitar volume.

I have a Soldano preset for soloing. I use this for crunch chords by backing off the gtr volume.

I have a modded version of the factory 80's clean. Love that preset!

Then I add in one or two gonzo presets. Right now its a modded version of the violin preset.

I also use basically stomp box style and no scenes. For all presets I use footswitches to activate:

1. Drive block. I keep the preset volume almost the same when the Drive is engaged. Usually works out to about a +3db vs. my clean tone.
2. Modulation block. This can be auto wah filter, phase shifter, or univibe depending on the preset and me just trying stuff out.
3. "Louder" footswitch. I program this as a 5-band passive GEQ with a mid boost and level boost. This is post amp and cab and doesn't affect amp gain.
4. Delay footswitch. I program this as a post cab multidelay used for special efx and space jamming.
5. Guitar mute. I program this to mute Out 1 L/R and Out 2 L and keep Out 2 R active. Out 2 R goes to my vocal processor. With this switch I can play "silent" guitar chords to drive the vocal harmonies when the guitar is tacet in the song.

Out 1 L -> FOH
Out 1 R -> (optional to FOH if stereo else not used)

Out 2 L -> CLR wedge for monitor
Out 2 R -> TC VoiceLive 3 for vocal harmonies that follow my guitar parts.

I set the front panel Out 1 at soundcheck and don't change it.

I can control my wedge volume during the show with front panel Out 2.
 
Out of our 60 songs, I'm running about 15 or so presets (I'll need to double-check it might be a few more) Some of them have scenes, like gonna go my way. I bet that most of the audience can't tell the difference between my patches using USA lead, HBE or wrecker, but I sure can. Since it makes me happy, I run more patches than I probably need to. Other than the clean patches, the onboard signal level meter gets me in the ballpark and then I just need to do a final adjustment w/ the band.
 
I have done presets per song for a long time but I don't try to nail the record tones per say. I just have up to 5 scenes set up per song so switching between section of the song is one button instead of a tap dance. All my presets share one template and all my blocks are global so when I adjust one song I have tweaked all 75 presets I have created so far
 
I use about eighteen presets all with scenes. Two of them get me through 75% of the night. One for my bridge pup and the other for the neck pup. It's rare that I need to switch pups within a song. The rest are song specific. For those two presets I have eight scenes with 4-6 rhythm and a couple of leads. The rhythm scenes go from clean, slight breakup, more breakup to pretty heavy. I use 4-6 to compensate for different rooms as well as different song requirements. If you use the VU meters and slog through your presets you won't have to go back to your presets to make major changes. I have to say I did remake all my presets after about six months because I learned so much during that time that a total makeover was required. I use about a half dozen amps throughout all my presets and get all I need with master volume and input gain using the two scene controllers in most of my presets and careful planning. I'm in a classic rock cover band and although not necessary I love coming close to the sounds of the record. It's challenging and educational and the band always takes notice. Good luck.
 
In a jam situation, I'll make up a bank of 5 presets with scenes, then dial in by hand anything wild that comes up.
In a covers gig I play, I use one or two presets per song, with 2-3 scenes each max.

The best way to solve this problem is to just do what you can in the time allotted, play some gigs, and make adjustments. Soon, you'll find out what works best. Then you can make things tidy and efficient.

Also, are you using pedals with VOL INCR and VOL DECR? With this power tool, you can adjust levels during a single band rehearsal and get it all right. I use a Boss FS6. (Though I do also sometimes use an EV-1 on CC#11 with a range of 111-127 for fine tuning at a gig.)

When is someone going to make a volume pedal with a "detent" midway? That would be very cool.
 
My suggestion is to keep it simple. I have a few presets for my all-round coverband: clean, crunch, classic rock, modern rock, lead, and that's it. It works really well for me. If you have those in place, you are 90% there. Once you are comfortable with those sounds, add 'specialty' items to spice things up, eg delay sounds for u2 covers, ambience/pitch shifting, rotary, tremolo, and use scenes to switch the specialty items in or out depending on the song.
 
15 presets over 3 banks of five on the FCB1010 for 40 covers/homespun titles. Then have some banks with presets for "amusement at home" or " Work In Progress". Used to have one preset per song in the order of the setlist (so sometimes a few times the same preset in the list). But am still reducing, but as I like to use some more deeply worked effects so here and there it's getting hard to reduce more and what the heck...with 3 banks of 127 Presets I'm not going to be short of space soon.
Cheers.
 
i used a preset for every song, with scenes for each section...all built off the same couple of templates though.
 
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