AXE-FX vs BIAS Comparison

In the last clip I think the Axe has a lot more clarity than the bias matched... but that could also be due to some differences in EQ, hard to tell.

Maybe we could try a blind AB test on this and see if the users can tell them apart? I'm all for less bias in comparisons (no pun intended).
 
Guys... of course BIAS cannot compete with AFX in any way. That's the reason I've switched to AFX couple months ago and didn't used BIAS ever since.

But honestly - you have to admit that the difference in tone quality is much smaller than the price difference and for those who cannot afford AFX at given moment BIAS is pretty useful solution before they will save money for the Black Box. Of course in terms of playing at home, practicing etc... I wouldn't go to studio or on stage equipped with laptop and budget VST plugin ;)
 
kavoo said:
Guys... of course BIAS cannot compete with AFX in any way. That's the reason I've switched to AFX couple months ago and didn't used BIAS ever since.

But honestly - you have to admit that the difference in tone quality is much smaller than the price difference and for those who cannot afford AFX at given moment BIAS is pretty useful solution before they will save money for the Black Box. Of course in terms of playing at home, practicing etc... I wouldn't go to studio or on stage equipped with laptop and budget VST plugin ;)
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I'd go a step further and claim that it's only for recording (because of latency). But for that, it's pretty impressive.
 
I've used BIAS Amp and POD Farm Platinum for practicing and home recording with Line6 UX2 interface and NEVER had any issues with latency that people are complaining about.
 
Just a lot more harmonic complexity happening in the Axe. The EQ matched one sounds very similar, but it's like you went from WAV file to 128 kbps MP3
 
This will be all a lot clearer in the video I'll be shooting but the EQ on the BIAS doesn't allow me to get anywhere close to how the Axe-Fx sounds. Match EQ makes almost every free VST plugin amp model sound pretty convincing. BIAS however has the tone match function built in so that's a step up in that sense. There are amp models that sound really full and good like the Soldano f.ex. but then there are these amp sims that may sound a bit broken and the EQ doesn't change it. If you do some drastic EQ you'll notice quite a big quality difference. F.ex. boost 6dB at 3000hz on the Axe-Fx vs BIAS. Axe-Fx is still able to sound like a real amp at that point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with the BIAS I would mentally go back to those Line6 days tweaks where I'm only turning knobs to try and make it sound more like a real amp. All of us Axe-Fx users have kind of gone over that phase and tweak the amp EQ to get more low end or treble etc. since the amp model will always sound like a real amp. But once again we're talking about a cheap plugin. It's cheaper than the POD HD right? I think the ability to have custom cabs and tone matching might make it better than POD HD but POD HD still has better amp modeling IMHO.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
This will be all a lot clearer in the video I'll be shooting but the EQ on the BIAS doesn't allow me to get anywhere close to how the Axe-Fx sounds. Match EQ makes almost every free VST plugin amp model sound pretty convincing. BIAS however has the tone match function built in so that's a step up in that sense. There are amp models that sound really full and good like the Soldano f.ex. but then there are these amp sims that may sound a bit broken and the EQ doesn't change it. If you do some drastic EQ you'll notice quite a big quality difference. F.ex. boost 6dB at 3000hz on the Axe-Fx vs BIAS. Axe-Fx is still able to sound like a real amp at that point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with the BIAS I would mentally go back to those Line6 days tweaks where I'm only turning knobs to try and make it sound more like a real amp. All of us Axe-Fx users have kind of gone over that phase and tweak the amp EQ to get more low end or treble etc. since the amp model will always sound like a real amp. But once again we're talking about a cheap plugin. It's cheaper than the POD HD right? I think the ability to have custom cabs and tone matching might make it better than POD HD but POD HD still has better amp modeling IMHO.
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Sure. But what I think what people are trying to get at is: are there really people who expect a $100 plugin developed for iPad to compete with a multi-thousand dollar SHARC-based processing unit?

I mean, in a few more years there MAY be somebody who does a software-based pre/power amp modeling that competes, but I bet it sure as Hell will be more than a single Benjamin in price.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
Sure. But what I think what people are trying to get at is: are there really people who expect a $100 plugin developed for iPad to compete with a multi-thousand dollar SHARC-based processing unit?

I mean, in a few more years there MAY be somebody who does a software-based pre/power amp modeling that competes, but I bet it sure as Hell will be more than a single Benjamin in price.
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Well not me at least. I guess it's the BIAS marketing speech that makes some people think so. You know.. they do state "BIAS FX is equipped with the most advanced DSP sound engine". And I guess their slogan "TONE AT AN ENTIRELY NEW LEVEL" truthfully means the inbetween level of Axe-Fx and Guitar Rig that hasn't been covered yet? :)

But all of that mumble aside I don't want there to be negativity towards BIAS. For the price it's really good. Maybe I feel like it's getting a lot of hype that's not necessary but I have no problem with people enjoying BIAS. :)
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
Well not me at least. I guess it's the BIAS marketing speech that makes some people think so. You know.. they do state "BIAS FX is equipped with the most advanced DSP sound engine". And I guess their slogan "TONE AT AN ENTIRELY NEW LEVEL" truthfully means the inbetween level of Axe-Fx and Guitar Rig that hasn't been covered yet? :)

But all of that mumble aside I don't want there to be negativity towards BIAS. For the price it's really good. Maybe I feel like it's getting a lot of hype that's not necessary but I have no problem with people enjoying BIAS. :)
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Right, but marketing jingoisms exist all over. I mean... remember when a certain high-end company said that the Mesa models sounded 100% real... in their first firmware...???...???...!!!

For $100 it really DOES sound good. Considering that it even gets in the ballpark of a unit 20 times it's price is a testament to where software amp modeling is going in the future.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
Right, but marketing jingoisms exist all over. I mean... remember when a certain high-end company said that the Mesa models sounded 100% real... in their first firmware...???...???...!!!

For $100 it really DOES sound good. Considering that it even gets in the ballpark of a unit 20 times it's price is a testament to where software amp modeling is going in the future.
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And let's also not forget that the Axe has had three hardware iterations and over 30 major firmware iterations already. Obviously, I don't expect the programmers of Bias to stop at this point. Let's see what this sounds like in a year; I'm sure it will only get better from here.

EDIT: then again, I haven't heard a single low gain clip of this yet...
 
One day all modelers will fit on to an iwatch, that day is not now.

Bias, amplitude, and every other modeler you can think of are toys, and as toys they are useless live, suffer from lag or live in line 6 and zoom land (fairy land)

sure you can get good sounds form them all, they all have nice pretty interfaces, however they are still newbie toys (with few exceptions)
Its like going to the suhr forum and saying i just bought a 100$ guitar from china, this is so kewl!!!! i can play the riff from fuzzwolup just the same!!!!

**sigh**

The fact is a $100 guitar is as good as a $100 guitar, a $100 plugin is just that, a $100 plugin, yeah its interesting it sounds so good (in limited situations), but other then morbid curiosity most people who buy the axefx, wont give 2 hoots about bais and its pretty pictures of tubes

my 2 cents given
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym0Xcyb46eA

Before I bought my AXE fx 2 XL, I was using Waves GTR3 and I've got some satisfactory yet not perfect results, for my taste, after a lot of years of using it and learning it.
I was so used to the way Waves GTR3 works, I thought Axe FX sounded weird when I first tried it. I did recognise that Axe had a hell of a lot better dynamics, though, It took me quite a while to learn it and get better tones than I did with GTR3.

One of the last tests with Waves GTR3
https://soundcloud.com/freemind-2/freemind-random-practise-61
This sounds Ok'ish.

One of the first tests with Axe FX (~FW15)
https://soundcloud.com/freemind-2/freemind-random-practise-66
This sounds pretty horrible.

Later, I've tried BIAS, and I thought it sounded pretty darn horrible.
I think the problem is not as much with the gear, as it is getting used to it, and knowing it well.
Also, this is an Axe FX forum, of course users here will say that Axe sounds a lot better, as "better" is not really an objective term. They are used to that sound. Ask that on a bias or a Kemper forum and I won't be surprised if they'll say that their device sounds better or "Sure Axe FX sounds a tiny bit better, but not 2000$ better".

Better do blind tests.

"you might not hear a difference, but I guarantee the people listening to your recordings can.
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That's not true.
people listening to the recordings have no idea what's what and usually don't care at all. They can't even recognise whether it's a crappy modeller or an expensive real amp unless you tell them. It very much depends on the mix.

In case of interface, I think it would be cool if Axe Edit had these pretty pictures of tubes, amps and cabs. Axe Edit looks "sterile".

a $100 plugin is just that, a $100 plugin
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If bias was 1000$, would you say "It's expensive, that means it has to be good!". Judge gear by their features, not their price.
 
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FreeMind said:
In case of interface, I think it would be cool if Axe Edit had these pretty pictures of tubes, amps and cabs. Axe Edit looks "sterile".
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I love the functional and minimalistic design of Axe Edit.

Granted, I'm also a sucker for the clean and efficient interfaces of VLC player or Audacity. There is beauty in pure mechanical efficiency. I don't need colorful pictures to entertain me when I'm clearly running a software to achieve a certain goal.

Graphics and design are for Apple Users. Please keep my editors as dry and efficient as possible.
 
I love the functional and minimalistic design of Axe Edit.
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I love minimalistic interfaces too, but some software, I think, really benefit from such fanciness.
Like, in case of amp modellers, I want them to feel/look like I am actually tweaking an amp, and I am actually moving a microphone... It's more inviting. Also, in case of stomps VST's, It's far cooler if the vst actually looks like the stomp, and not some three digital circle knobs...
Also, the fact that axe fx keeps all the settings for all amps identical, even though these amps have completely different appearances and controls in reality is not that cool, in my opinion. Many amps lose their original controls and switches because Axe FX has to keep identical controls...
 
FreeMind said:
It's far cooler if the vst actually looks like the stomp, and not some three digital circle knobs...
Also, the fact that axe fx keeps all the settings for all amps identical, even though these amps have completely different appearances and controls in reality is not that cool, in my opinion. Many amps lose their original controls and switches because Axe FX has to keep identical controls...
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I agree with you to an extent - not because of the aesthetics but because of the functionality involved. It's particularly the case with the drives etc on the Axe. You can get the tone with tweaking but it just doesn't have the same immediacy as tweaking one knob on a drive/delay/blah pedal which has been tuned to affect a bunch of different parameters internally. It's not the sound - it's the interface - and this has a big effect on how you approach a piece of gear creatively.

Some software gets around this by providing simplified interfaces that act as macros to what's under the hood. Reaktor modules from NI are an extreme example but u-he have also done this with their latest compressor, Presswerk. It's an approach that works well and it would be nice to see something like it in the AFX one day. In the meantime though it's not as if we're not spoilt for goodies so I'm not complaining!
 
Axe FX ----> sounds like a good mic through a great mic-pre

BIAS ------> sounds like a good mic through an old Fostex 4-trk picked out of the trash somewhere
 
I had some POD2 sounds that would record amazeballs but it didn't end my tone chasing... with AFX I have crossed the line, it is fun to demo these things but I just don't have much interest in new amp sims. I have 200+ channels a majority of which are dead accurate. Cab IRs and actually learning how to dial FX (some people here are amazing, I suck) are much more interesting to me right now because they are much bigger things than incremental amp sim improvements.

I bought Bias VST because I have a multiple iPads + iPhones and too much discretionary income :D but, TBH, while it is a a great tool and I don't doubt it can record amazingly...(and this is true of probably thirty products I can name) side by side, it quickly felt pointless hands on given the gear I have at my disposal. If I was a poor kid again, it might be awesome but I'd still be looking for a summer job to afford that AFX or Kemper. Same way a lot of guys felt wrt modelers vs tubes five years ago.

I feel like I have hundreds of channels of authentic tone, the d*ck measuring contests are just starting to lose their luster. It was actually a more fun exercise when everything sucked. Recording a crushing demo with a distortion box and speaker sim or cab emulated (now featuring four modes! 1x12, 2x12, 4x12 open/closed) was a much more interesting exercise.
 
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