why does my stereo delay sound mono in this config?

[Jan Geerts]

the plan is two use two amps, then some stereo fx, then two cabs, then reverb. All stereo. But my delay now sounds mono.
What am I doing wrong here?

 

[DavezHear]

It can be done with two mono cabs if the inputs and outputs are setup correctly, but might be easier just to use a stereo cab.

 

[nater]

those CAB blocks need to be config'ed to receive the appropriate L and R signals and pass them through as such. Your cab blocks are probably mono and are receiving a stereo signal, and summing it to mono.

 

[MartinJorgensen]

Try do place the delay block after the cab block.

 

[Jan Geerts]

it does work with a stereo cab, and I do want the delays before the cab for two reasons:
1 the sound
2 I might place an fx loop to out 2 to connect a guitar cab while stereo out 1 goes to FRFR

thanks

and, oh yes, this new beta sounds even better. Let's see how this will sound on rehearsal with FRFR

 

[Stillbruch]

Unless I got something completely wrong: DLY is linear time invariant, and CAB too, thus a+b = b+a, in other words, it wouldn't change anything if you put DLY before or after CAB, unless it was stereo.

I might place an fx loop to out 2 to connect a guitar cab while stereo out 1 goes to FRFR

That, however, is a legit reason to put DLY before CAB.

 

[nater]

I run my delays before my CAB block because I also send my signal through the FXLoop block to send to power amp/cab. Anytime I'm using stereo effects (delays etc.) I simply use a stereo CAB block with each cab panned hard left 100% and right 100%.

 

[Jan Geerts]

I think because of the nature of guitar speakers with their coloration, the delay gets that color when it's in front.

 

[Stillbruch]

I think because of the nature of guitar speakers with their coloration, the delay gets that color when it's in front.

Maybe you don't know how IRs work. They are linear like an EQ. So what happens is: The AMP-signal passes the CAB-block, which colours the original signal. If you put the DLY after CAB, the CAB colours the original signal and the DLY gets added. If you put DLY before the CAB, the original signal is delayed (according to the mix-parameter) and then the colouration are added. So no difference, as addition is a linear operation.

(All of the above is cr*p if I'm wrong about DLY being linear time invariant.)

 

[Stillbruch]

I figured out a solution to your problem.
Once the CAB-block is set to MONO HIRES/LORES, any kind of input is summed up to mono. The solution would be to use one CAB-block set to STEREO and pan the IRs appropriately, like this:

.
It might work with two STEREO CAB-blocks too, but I didn't figure out which side of the DLY would hit which side of which CAB block.

 

[Rook]

Maybe you don't know how IRs work. They are linear like an EQ. So what happens is: The AMP-signal passes the CAB-block, which colours the original signal. If you put the DLY after CAB, the CAB colours the original signal and the DLY gets added. If you put DLY before the CAB, the original signal is delayed (according to the mix-parameter) and then the colouration are added. So no difference, as addition is a linear operation.

(All of the above is cr*p if I'm wrong about DLY being linear time invariant.)

You are not wrong according to an old post by Cliff, and he should know since he wrote the algorithms.

 

[Jan Geerts]

I did set it up the way you described, and I'll use my ears this evening to test this theory. Thanks, good stuff, guys.

 

[Jan Geerts]

BTW, does anyone else here hear this thread title sung to Zappa's Why does it hurt when I pee when they read it? You do now

 

[GreatGreen]

The Cab block, when set to MONO, always sums incoming signal to mono, applies cab emulation, then outputs a dual mono signal.

Either place your delay after the cab blocks, or use a single Cab block set to stereo to fix the issue.

Here's the diagram from the manual:

vvv edit: didn't see your correction down there man, hah. you were totally right.

 

[Stillbruch]

(...) or hard pan both your cab blocks to opposite sides.

That doesn't work as long as the CAB-blocks are set to MONO.

CORRECTION
Due to the latest edit, the above has become obsolete.

 

[rodzimguitar68]

The Cab block, when set to MONO, always sums incoming signal to mono, applies cab emulation, then outputs a dual mono signal.

Either place your delay after the cab blocks, or use a single Cab block set to stereo to fix the issue.

Here's the diagram from the manual:

You just changed my life. Thank you.