Which FRFR? Is it worth it?

[RobbyDeeMusic]

The ASC-10s are even better when you tilt them up at you. Great monitors. I've had mine for a long time now and don't even have a care to use anything else.

Same here, and I tilt them up as well. Great monitors/cabs.

 

[redhedded1]

I just received 2 X Boutique FRLR with the Celestion F12-X200 speakers in them. I already had 2 X Friedman ASM-12 Monitor wedges mounted on stands. I have the Boutiques sitting up about waist high. To tell you the truth the Friedman's definitely sound more like an amplifier. There is some goodness coming from the cabinets (65 lbs. each). The Boutiques are screaming demons, totally sound like an amplifier. A/B'ing them so far sounds great, but I will be using the EQs and dialing them in - the are output 1 & 2 from the Fractal AF3. The Boutiques get the Output 2 signal from a Matrix GT1000-FX. I don't know about the Redsound and may try them in the future, but playing through this is like really hard to change. It's freaking awesome and I'm spoiled. Running a Mark V preset on the Fractal through the Matrix to the Boutiques gives me heavy deja-vu (Mark V was my main amps since the day it was released). I don't hear any problems with the Fender type / Dumble style presets when I give it some love. I'm all about EQ though, you can almost make a Metal Zone through a Fender Squire sound good with some serious EQ.

If you are looking for a FRFR that will give a warm amp in the room sound as well, you can't go wrong with the Friedman's If you are a purist you should give a Celestion F12-X200 's a try through a cabinet to specs. The Boutiques are nice and won't break your back if portability is a necessity.

The RedSounds seem to be preferred by many players on here, so if you can try them out that would be ideal. The Boutiques are going to give you a tube amp heaven especially with the Matrix GT1000-FX. I find that hard to beat.

 

[skolacki]

I just received 2 X Boutique FRLR with the Celestion F12-X200 speakers in them. I already had 2 X Friedman ASM-12 Monitor wedges mounted on stands. I have the Boutiques sitting up about waist high. To tell you the truth the Friedman's definitely sound more like an amplifier. There is some goodness coming from the cabinets (65 lbs. each). The Boutiques are screaming demons, totally sound like an amplifier. A/B'ing them so far sounds great, but I will be using the EQs and dialing them in - the are output 1 & 2 from the Fractal AF3. The Boutiques get the Output 2 signal from a Matrix GT1000-FX. I don't know about the Redsound and may try them in the future, but playing through this is like really hard to change. It's freaking awesome and I'm spoiled. Running a Mark V preset on the Fractal through the Matrix to the Boutiques gives me heavy deja-vu (Mark V was my main amps since the day it was released). I don't hear any problems with the Fender type / Dumble style presets when I give it some love. I'm all about EQ though, you can almost make a Metal Zone through a Fender Squire sound good with some serious EQ.

If you are looking for a FRFR that will give a warm amp in the room sound as well, you can't go wrong with the Friedman's If you are a purist you should give a Celestion F12-X200 's a try through a cabinet to specs. The Boutiques are nice and won't break your back if portability is a necessity.

The RedSounds seem to be preferred by many players on here, so if you can try them out that would be ideal. The Boutiques are going to give you a tube amp heaven especially with the Matrix GT1000-FX. I find that hard to beat.

Those Friedman speakers are using class G amps. Had to look it up, didn’t know what that was. Not digital like class D. More efficient than AB but still all analog amplification. I would love to try one of those. Congrats on your new F12 cabs.

 

[redhedded1]

Those Friedman speakers are using class G amps. Had to look it up, didn’t know what that was. Not digital like class D. More efficient than AB but still all analog amplification. I would love to try one of those. Congrats on your new F12 cabs.

DIdn't know that about the Friedman's amplifier class G. Like I said, there wasn't a huge change like I was expecting between the Friedmans and The Boutique cabs with the Celestions. Perhaps a bit more clarity on the Boutiques, I always have a problem with Marshalls sounding harsh to me, and I recall that sound when I hooked up the Boutiques to some Marshall presets.

 

[Justincase]

Those boutique cabs do look great.

 

[Suh'KtonGupta]

Haven't taken it out to gig yet but very satisfied with my PXM-12MP wedge thus far

 

[TheloniusJ]

Headrush 108 user here and with @WKSmith 's amazing Para EQ settings (search off his user name for the thread - I think its called Flattening the HeadRush Curve) - its made them totally useable - I have 2 so plenty of Stereo Goodness to get lost in and they are LOUD!! like drown out the drummer type loud if you need them to be - I use as foldback monitors for the full-on FOH large stage gigs I do - mainly for a bit of feel (and feedback!)and backup to my IEM's. I can also turn them around and use them as trad backline if required.

Great bits of kit.

As an FYI, I have a few real amps (MKV Mesa, 5153, Shiva) that have essentially been replaced by the modelling on the FM3 and the sheer portability and power of these little 108's.

Thanks for this. I just started playing with my 108s in a live scenario. I'm mostly happy with them, but they: 1) didn't quite sound like my headphones; 2) were a bit woofy; 3) weren't quite cutting through.

I just dialed in these into my global Out 2 settings (I am using the XLR out from Out 1 for the board) and will try it on Tuesday at our next rehearsal. I'm really hoping it will move them into the pure usable zone.

 

[WelshLukather]

Thanks for this. I just started playing with my 108s in a live scenario. I'm mostly happy with them, but they: 1) didn't quite sound like my headphones; 2) were a bit woofy; 3) weren't quite cutting through.

I just dialed in these into my global Out 2 settings (I am using the XLR out from Out 1 for the board) and will try it on Tuesday at our next rehearsal. I'm really hoping it will move them into the pure usable zone.

Without the Para EQ they will sound very woofy and almost unusable in any scenario over talking volume and completely drowned out.

I have also found the Cooper Carter trick to add 3db boost to the input EQ on the amp to help immensely with cutting through.

Also, the most important thing out of all of this is cab Hi/Lo cuts - start with 80/8500 and go from there.

As an FYI, I am using Out2 (with global Para EQ) to feed the Headrushes and then using Out1 (Flat/no Global EQ treatment) to feed FOH.

 

[TheloniusJ]

Without the Para EQ they will sound very woofy and almost unusable in any scenario over talking volume and completely drowned out.

I have also found the Cooper Carter trick to add 3db boost to the input EQ on the amp to help immensely with cutting through.

Also, the most important thing out of all of this is cab Hi/Lo cuts - start with 80/8500 and go from there.

As an FYI, I am using Out2 (with global Para EQ) to feed the Headrushes and then using Out1 (Flat/no Global EQ treatment) to feed FOH.

I hadn't heard about the 3db input EQ trick. Not sure I understand, but it sounds interesting so I'll look it up. I'm very curious about this.

I for sure use the cab block blocking and am actually a bit more aggressive (110/7k).

 

[WelshLukather]

@TheloniusJ

Here’s the Cooper stuff:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ay-with-cooper-carter-24.182815/#post-2246093

 

[TheloniusJ]

@TheloniusJ

Here’s the Cooper stuff:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ay-with-cooper-carter-24.182815/#post-2246093

Thank you! I actually stumbled across it yesterday searching YouTube. Good stuff.

So the pre-amp EQ is at 1K, which makes more sense (for some reason I thought it was a flat boost). Anyway, the idea of putting it before the amp to make it more subtle is really interesting, so THANK YOU! Definitely giving it a try.

 

[BIGDOG]

Redsound MF10 ,amazing I have clr’s as well, but the redsound are the real deal

 

[TheloniusJ]

Without the Para EQ they will sound very woofy and almost unusable in any scenario over talking volume and completely drowned out.

I have also found the Cooper Carter trick to add 3db boost to the input EQ on the amp to help immensely with cutting through.

Also, the most important thing out of all of this is cab Hi/Lo cuts - start with 80/8500 and go from there.

As an FYI, I am using Out2 (with global Para EQ) to feed the Headrushes and then using Out1 (Flat/no Global EQ treatment) to feed FOH.

So I played with this last night. It definitely solves the woofy problem, but it really messed with my tone a bit too much and made it quite thin. I tried dialing down the magnitude of some of those boosts and cuts in the para. It helped a bit, but I feel like I need a little more work dialing this in.

 

[Jim DeSchamp]

Are the Red Sound speakers available in the US? I saw a different post mentioning a US distributor, but I haven't been able to figure out if that is a real thing, or something that will be coming in the future to the US. Thanks!

Yes! I bought a stereo pair from Flipside Music in Denver CO. My keyboard player also bought an active one from Flipside.

 

[Fat Dad]

I’m in the Headrush camp also. I’ve thought about replacing my 112 but it just sounds so good at stage volume that there’s just no reason to fix what isn’t broken.

 

[WelshLukather]

So I played with this last night. It definitely solves the woofy problem, but it really messed with my tone a bit too much and made it quite thin. I tried dialing down the magnitude of some of those boosts and cuts in the para. It helped a bit, but I feel like I need a little more work dialing this in.

You have probably over-compensated with traditional amp EQ and Hi/Lo cuts within your presets to overcome the need to cut through/get rid of boominess - my amp settings now resemble something like I would have dialled in on real amps - actually, my EVH preset is almost identical to my real 5150 and the same for my IIC+ patch which is also very similar to my real thing!!!

I have plenty of thump happening too!

 

[TheloniusJ]

You have probably over-compensated with traditional amp EQ and Hi/Lo cuts within your presets to overcome the need to cut through/get rid of boominess - my amp settings now resemble something like I would have dialled in on real amps - actually, my EVH preset is almost identical to my real 5150 and the same for my IIC+ patch which is also very similar to my real thing!!!

I have plenty of thump happening too!

I had dialed the bass settings on the amp back originally, but that was the first thing I changed when it sounded a little thin.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the Output EQ settings are intended to compensate for the non-flatness of the HRs. I was in a place where the preset sounded good through headphones, but super boomy through the HRs. Now the boominess is gone from the HRs, but it also doesn't sound nearly as good as it does through headphones.

Bottom line is that I was hoping this would be a magic bullet, but didn't quite get me there. I think it is the right approach, but these particular settings aren't quite doing it for my set up. It's just bringing out some frequencies that I'm not finding very nice.

Do you use those exact settings with your 108s or did you do any custom tweaking?

 

[WelshLukather]

I had dialed the bass settings on the amp back originally, but that was the first thing I changed when it sounded a little thin.

I guess what I'm getting at is that the Output EQ settings are intended to compensate for the non-flatness of the HRs. I was in a place where the preset sounded good through headphones, but super boomy through the HRs. Now the boominess is gone from the HRs, but it also doesn't sound nearly as good as it does through headphones.

Bottom line is that I was hoping this would be a magic bullet, but didn't quite get me there. I think it is the right approach, but these particular settings aren't quite doing it for my set up. It's just bringing out some frequencies that I'm not finding very nice.

Do you use those exact settings with your 108s or did you do any custom tweaking?

No, the exact settings.

The only thing I would say is that headphones are never going to give you a decent representation of what a FOH would sound like - I don’t use headphones - I just tend to find that whatever Output 2 gives me to the Headrushes translates really well to FOH through the non-EQ treated Output 1.

 

[TheloniusJ]

You have probably over-compensated with traditional amp EQ and Hi/Lo cuts within your presets to overcome the need to cut through/get rid of boominess - my amp settings now resemble something like I would have dialled in on real amps - actually, my EVH preset is almost identical to my real 5150 and the same for my IIC+ patch which is also very similar to my real thing!!!

I have plenty of thump happening too!

Quick update. I replaced the original Output EQ settings for flattening the HR curve and just dialed in the amp a bit more. You were right, I didn't have that the way I wanted. I actually set up a different cab block and that really worked well with it. I was pretty happy with my tone at rehearsal last night and sounded good in the band mix.

 

[MrBollie]

This.

If you want a cab for stage sound, try a real cab.

Also, if it's just stage sound/monitoring, lack of flatness isn't going to be noticed much.

Yeah, running the FM3 without the cab block even through a cheap Harley Benton GPA100 into a real guitar cab was quite some revelation for me. Even through a well-loved rental Blackstar 2x12, it was still able to put me into my happy place... unlike the Kemper Stage I used before I discovered the FM3. Pondering getting a second GPA100 and running stereo into the 2x12.