Using envelope followers to enhance and create realistic amp dynamics

T

Tpj3313

Member
I have been experimenting with this I started doing it on the axe fx 2 and I used to achieve good results.
I was just wondering if the admins have ever programmed this into the rigs of the pro musicians that use the axe fx and if there are any tips they might have.
If you are someone that is used to playing amps with large amounts of dynamic range based on the pick attack then I would suggest you try it
If anyone has any experience with it I just wanted to open a thread on the topic
 
Tpj3313 said:
I have been experimenting with this I started doing it on the axe fx 2 and I used to achieve good results.
I was just wondering if the admins have ever programmed this into the rigs of the pro musicians that use the axe fx and if there are any tips they might have.
If you are someone that is used to playing amps with large amounts of dynamic range based on the pick attack then I would suggest you try it
If anyone has any experience with it I just wanted to open a thread on the topic
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Please elaborate (or even better, post a patch)! This is a topic I'm very interested in.
 
jlynnb1 said:
we already have realistic amp dynamics
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I have a Friedman BE50 deluxe and the amount of dynamics I have with pic attacks going from clean to distorted cannot be matched by the axe fx. When you attach an envelope follower to the gain control, you can start to make it more authentic sounding.
 
OP, if you want more picking dynamics, read up on the Amp Block's Dynamics Tab/Output Compressor Type = Feedback.

Also, there is the Amp Block's Speaker Tab's/Speaker Compress param for more pick attack, and of course the Power Supply/Sag param as well.

With these controls you should find what you're looking for much easier than using an Envelope Follower IMO.
 
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Admin M@ said:
If you're talking to me, the answer is no. The amps and your fingers are plenty dynamic enough to not need any kind of enhancement in this area.
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This.

What volume are you listening at? When you turn it up, everything gets spankier.
 
Tpj3313 said:
I have been experimenting with this I started doing it on the axe fx 2 and I used to achieve good results.
I was just wondering if the admins have ever programmed this into the rigs of the pro musicians that use the axe fx and if there are any tips they might have.
If you are someone that is used to playing amps with large amounts of dynamic range based on the pick attack then I would suggest you try it
If anyone has any experience with it I just wanted to open a thread on the topic
Click to expand...
dynamics increase when you play at higher volumes.

do you play the amp at a higher volume than the axe? if so, this could be a reason for less dynamics.
 
Tpj3313 said:
I have a Friedman BE50 deluxe and the amount of dynamics I have with pic attacks going from clean to distorted cannot be matched by the axe fx. When you attach an envelope follower to the gain control, you can start to make it more authentic sounding.
Click to expand...

Post an example. Not being snarky, never played that amp and I'd be interested to see/hear the differences.

EDIT: I've done the envelope trick before. Maybe I couldn't get it dialed I'm right but while it absolutely increases a sense of pick dynamics controlling gain it also caused weirdness to happen in the decay if holding chords as the gain fell off quickly after a certain point.
 
Oh I've used this trick extensively in the past up till I got the iii. It's not just a volume thing. I would play LOUD when I gigged, and the dynamics and feel of the iii are so much better.

With the axe 3 current lineup you don't really need it anymore. The dynamics have improved considerably since, and I still have my ultra and ii here to compare.

To avoid it sounding weird, don't use extreme values, for eg don't have the envelope control values of 0-10, instead have the min and max at a decent value, say 4 and 8 or something, (I can't remember exact values, but use your ear) so you might get more out of it without it getting weird on lighter notes or as the notes decay. It's highly dependent on playing style, so if you are a metal guy for eg it won't work well. If you're a kinda edge of breakup guy or like mid gain tones with a little bite as you pick harder, it works wonder on pre-current gen axe fx units
 
chris said:
dynamics increase when you play at higher volumes.

do you play the amp at a higher volume than the axe? if so, this could be a reason for less dynamics.
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And the amount of gain, or how much the power-amp is distorting, can make a big difference in dynamics. People tend to turn up the modeler's gain way too high to compensate for not having the volume where it should be.

Da man said:
When playing with a loud amp the positive feedback from the speaker into the guitar effectively increases the gain of the amp when the volume control is wide open. As you roll the volume control off the amount of gain increase is lower. This gives the ILLUSION that the amp cleans up more when you roll of the volume but it's not the amp that is cleaning up, the signal into the amp is lowered more than if there were no feedback.

When using a modeler people almost always have the volume lower because amps are too loud. Lowering the volume reduces the feedback which in turn lowers the gain enhancement. To compensate people raise the gain of the model but now when you roll off the volume it doesn't clean up as much because the gain is higher. IOW, to compensate for the reduced feedback the user increases the gain, say, 25% to get the same effective gain as the loud amp but when rolling off the volume the amp gain is still 25% higher so it doesn't clean up as much.
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