Studio monitor upgrade from A7X's to...

@TheRedDevil Usually, when you're paying for more expensive studio monitors, you're paying for flatness of frequency response.

Cheaper monitors are usually less flat and therefore less accurate; it's a simple as that.

On top of that, more expensive monitors have room tailoring features and often DSP to support that. But again, the goal is to result in as flat and accurate response as possible.

Thank you, but is flatter than this really possible or hearable? I thought +/-5dB on the graph is not hearable? But I don't know.

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I'm just wondering because independent measurements are often not available ... possibly it's just good marketing like so often. But I don't know and I don't trust my ears ;)
 
Can anybody please explain, what is the real sound difference of really expensive studio monitors e.g. compared with "cheap" KRK Rokit RP5 G4? Is it more the quality on higher volumes or the low end because of the larger cabinet size or is it really much more linear in source sound reproduction? Is the quality difference more 50% to 100% or 95% to 100%? I never heard really expensive ones but I know the sound of standard guitar cabinets with standard mid speakers. I do not understand, why we need such expensive studio monitors if the source is based on such simple speakers and high quality mics. The sound quality should never be better than at the source, or?

A "flat" response is one goal, but there are other factors such as clarity, stereo imaging, transient response (particularly in the low end), separation, low distortion, features like EQ, desk reflection filters, monitor placement EQs like on Kali's stuff, etc. On most consumer speakers and headphones the low end is a jumbled mess, just a wall of mud below like 100hz, and the highs are hyped up because it's easy to mistake extra high end for clarity. IMO Beyerdynamic is a great example of this, I can't stand the hyped high end on the DT770 and 880. The current-gen KRKs are actually a pretty good entry-level speaker and obviously they can be used effectively in combination with good acoustic treatment, but you won't see them as primary speakers in high end studios.

The other factor is the room, which affects what you hear even more than the particular speakers you choose. Expensive speakers cannot fix peaks and nulls caused by room modes, extended decay times especially in the low end, distortion from reflections, flutter echo, etc. Room modes can cause +/- 20dB peaks and nulls at the listening position. In a typical untreated residential room with 8-9ft ceilings, below 100hz you'll almost always see two big peaks and one big null, the null usually around 70hz from the floor-ceiling mode. For monitoring guitar this isn't a big deal tbh, but if you're doing critical listening or production then it's much more important to be able to trust what you're hearing, which means installing some acoustic treatment to reduce the strength of the room modes. Even if you're just practicing guitar it will improve your overall experience since the music you listen to will come thru much more clearly. If I had some KRKs and was choosing between spending $5k on speakers or acoustic treatment I would choose acoustic treatment every time. And not just 3" panels filled with building insulation which do nothing for bass, I mean actual pressure-based low end absorption.

It's hard to describe sound with words but once you've been in a quality studio it's obvious. The speakers seem to disappear, you can hear every detail very clearly, you can place things precisely in the stereo field, mixes translate to other environments, etc. But again this is more a result of the room design and acoustic treatment than the expensive speakers.
 
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Thank you very very much! Now I really better understand it. That could be the reason, why I often can't trust my ears - my room is more a warm conrete cellar than a studio - possibly the details just get lost. But I'm still happier than ever before :)

And yes, flatter is possible e.g.
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but with different side effects like more distortion or the Neumann
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But if this is hearable?
 
@TheRedDevil Have you used a reference mic to measure your room? That's step one on this journey because it will show you the specific frequencies where you have peaks, nulls, and long decay times, so you can target your acoustic treatment accordingly. Video part 1. Video part 2.

If you don't already have extensive acoustic treatment and your room's frequency variation at the listening position is still greater than +/- 5dB then try not to give into the temptation to spend more money on speakers or "room correction software", which again cannot fix the acoustic issues in your room. If you have a null at 70hz because of a 9ft ceiling, boosting 70hz to compensate will only make the original wave and reflections larger and stronger, increasing the depth of the null.

Since you're in Europe, check out this company. They build acoustic treatment with some of the best low end absorption measurements I've ever seen.
 
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I've had my A7X's for several years now and as a lot of members here know firsthand, they're an excellent set of monitors. Lately, GAS has been kicking my @ss and I'm in the early stages of research to upgrade my monitors. So far, I'm looking at Focal Trio6 BE, Genelec 8050 and Neumann KH310. I'm completely open to other brands as well. Would sincerely appreciate anyone's experience that has been in a similar situation. Ideally, I need to find a store (similar to Sweetwater) that has an impressive inventory to audition monitors. There doesn't seem to be many of these type stores around. I'm in NE Florida and if anyone has any suggestions for a road trip, that would be appreciated as well.
You can ship your A7X's to my house when you get a new set! 😁
 
My experience in room treatment vs. monitor quality is that it’s always going to be a balancing act (figuratively and literally). That said, I have a blatant mistrust of ANYTHING that calls itself a “Wizard” in most circumstances, and trying to correct physical issues with an electronic solution have rarely been effective for me. I typically use monitor/furniture placement first and then EQ/DSP surgically to handle small discrepancies.

In doing studio/live acoustics for a living for longer than I care to claim, it’s always immediately apparent when someone (with the best intentions) has only “chased the analyzer” — the EQ/DSP settings are usually severe and erratic, and the results wind up being unsatisfactory.

Keep in mind an analyzer can only “see” whatever arrives at the tip of the measurement mic, and because acoustics is “a game of pool at 1130 feet per second” it’s imperative to look at what happens to the monitor output AFTER it passes by your ears. What’s behind you is possibly more important than the rest of your room.
 
Lots of good monitors to choose from.
Dynaudio LYD48 is really good bang for the buck, but personally I'd look at ATC and get the best of those that you can afford (buy right - cry once)
The ATC 20's and 25's are both killer, but if you can swing take a look at the ATC SCM50A Pro's.
I'm on ATC SCM50A Pro's and they sound truly amazing no matter what genre or material you are listening to or mixing - everything is revealed and presented to you, while sounding epic.
 
I was going to invest in the A7Xs but now that they're discontinued i'm eyeing up the A7Vs. The built in room correction capabilities seems pretty cool especially for my less than ideal guitar room. Anyone use them yet?
 
I was going to invest in the A7Xs but now that they're discontinued i'm eyeing up the A7Vs. The built in room correction capabilities seems pretty cool especially for my less than ideal guitar room. Anyone use them yet?
I have the A7Vs and like them a lot. I previously had KH120's, which are also really good. I compared them and for guitar, I actually preferred the Adams and sold the KH120's.
 
I highly recommend you look at Barefoot speakers.I have the Footprint01’s.They are incredible and nice extra feature is the 4way contour knob. You can set them Hi-Fi,Flat,OldSchool or Cube.Not sure how accurate they are but you can check your mix four different ways with the turn of a knob.Not cheap but worth it IMO.
 

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I was going to invest in the A7Xs but now that they're discontinued i'm eyeing up the A7Vs. The built in room correction capabilities seems pretty cool especially for my less than ideal guitar room. Anyone use them yet?
I have an a7v and I have never been more satisfied..
You can certainly try them on, and if they don't suit you, return them..but I don't think you will return them :)
 
This week I actually upgraded from Adam A7X's to Adam S2V's as I found a great deal. Still breaking them in, but so far they're a big upgrade and I'm really enjoying them, while enjoying a similar voicing to the A7X's that I enjoyed.
 
Barefoot or Focal are hard to beat. I have the expensive Focals, but the budget lines from these two are very good.
 
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