Solved: FM3 sounded muffled until I positioned my studio monitors appropriately

[OrganicZed]

I love to see it when someone gets the help they need to solve their tone problems.

 

[austinbuddy]

Actually, all sound travels is a straight line — regardless of frequency — unless something reflects it or refracts it. The difference is how efficiently a given speaker radiates sound in different directions. At 5 KHz, a typical speaker cabinet concentrates the sound in a narrow cone directly in front of the speaker. At 50 Hz, the same speaker radiates sound at roughly equal levels in all directions. In other words, if you're off axis from a speaker, the sound you'll hear will have lots of lows and not much highs.

See - that’s the kind of technical explanation I am simply ill equipped to make! But not Rex, he’s got it!

 

[austinbuddy]

That’s something that the coaxial speakers seem to be taming, or controlling better.

I can’t technically explain it, but in my own personal experience, i just prefer the coaxial FRFR sound. That doesn’t mean I can’t be convinced with a non-coaxial speaker in the future, but so far for me, my ears like those best with my Axe-Fx III for a stage gig.

My ATC 25 studio pro mixing monitors (stupid expensive) are three-way and they simply kill and don’t fatigue my ears - so technically those are the best ones have ever heard, but that’s not gonna be for stage use!

 

[Will Chen]

So I’ve done reasesrch, any recommended height for best results? I’m currently right around 54 inches

Ideally you want an equilateral triangle with you at one point and a speaker at each other point, the high frequency driver as close to ear height as you can get, the speakers angled towards you (typically looking at the nearfields you would only see the face, not the sides of the monitors), and as much space between the speakers and wall as you can get (or some built in EQ adjustment to try to accommodate for the bass boost due to wall proximity, especially if they are rear ported).

 

[la szum]

I love to see it when someone gets the help they need to solve their tone problems.

Especially when none of the recommended suggestions actually addressed the issue.

All we can do is guess on the Internet.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Especially when none of the recommended suggestions actually addressed the issue.

All we can do is guess on the Internet.

So from now on, first send a pic showing your speakers.
I don't know what's going on, but my speakers sounds muffled.

 

[Rex]

If sound travel linearly, it can't radiate non linear from the speaker.

Sound can radiate in a straight line and still radiate at different strengths in different directions. Light also travels in straight lines, but a flashlight puts out more light in front than in back.

If you put a speaker 5 km in the air, with no reflecting surfaces anywhere near, it will still put out more treble to the front than to the back.

If you rotate the monitor you will noy change the speaker sound.

Yes, that will change the sound. If you rotate the speaker 180°, so it's facing the wall, it will sound radically different.

 

[sprint]

So from now on, first send a pic showing your speakers.
I don't know what's going on, but my speakers sounds muffled. View attachment 103864

That's a towel over yur speaker. TOTALLY different sonic situation than the blanket which was discussed in this thread.

 

[schantist]

So from now on, first send a pic showing your speakers.
I don't know what's going on, but my speakers sounds muffled. View attachment 103864

I recently read in another thread that the hardcore pros turn off their cab sims in that situation

 

[Wolfgangman]

Try this preset that I use live and see if it changes anything. Set your output EQ to the pic below

Thank's for this. The screenshot is different from what my FM3 shows in editor (sliders) - am I missing something?

Sorted - PEQ , not Graphic

 

[mr_fender]

Wouldn't the doppler effect be a case of sound travelling non-linearly?

 

[Rex]

Wouldn't the doppler effect be a case of sound travelling non-linearly?

No. The Doppler effect is completely compatible with straight-line sound propagation.

 

[mr_fender]

Ah, gotcha. Shifted relative to the listener, but still propagating linearly from the source.

 

[Rex]

No. The Doppler effect is completely compatible with straight-line sound propagation.

Yup.

 

[Smilzo]

Sound can radiate in a straight line and still radiate at different strengths in different directions. Light also travels in straight lines, but a flashlight puts out more light in front than in back.

If you put a speaker 5 km in the air, with no reflecting surfaces anywhere near, it will still put out more treble to the front than to the back.

Rex, a speaker to me is a transducer: the coil, the cone, the basket and the assembly.
If you put a speaker in the air, you will get more volume "in front" because of the cone shape and the basket. The farther you go, the lower both level AND tremble (air resist more for higher freq). If you approach a concert area, 1 km behind the stage or in front of it, the eq should be "scaled" in the same way (physic law...). The level SHOULD be different, hence fletcher-munchen should change apparent eq.
I might be wrong and misunderstood what you wrote.
If you put a speaker in a cabinet, you affect directivity, and eq (resonance). Usually speaker is in cabinet, more directional in front. If you point a cabinet into the wall, it will absorb the high. It's not the speaker that change eq, it's the room absorbing the frequency. The monitor/cab position is very important... often more than speaker dispersion!
Let me know what you think!

 

[Joel.Brown333]

Damn, you guys like to argue... If you're right in front of the speaker you hear more highs. If not, you hear less highs.

 

[lqdsnddist]

Different frequencies have different amounts of directionality due to wavelength . You can put a sub most anywhere in the room and it sounds pretty much the same, position isn’t too important; tweeters sound totally different if they aren’t facing your ears because the highs are more directional and sound different off axis.

 

[Cam Heiliger]

I actually love the civil discussions on this board. A lot goes over my head, but I learn new things almost daily here. Big emphasis on the “civil”, but most of the time that’s not an issue. So many smart, knowledgeable people here. Love it.

 

[Rex]

Rex, a speaker to me is a transducer: the coil, the cone, the basket and the assembly.

In the industry, that is called the “driver.” The rest is called the “cabinet.”

If you put a speaker in the air, you will get more volume "in front" because of the cone shape and the basket.

Also because of other factors, including the fact that the cone is moving forward and backward, and not sideways.

If you put a speaker in a cabinet, you affect directivity, and eq (resonance). Usually speaker is in cabinet, more directional in front. If you point a cabinet into the wall, it will absorb the high. It's not the speaker that change eq, it's the room absorbing the frequency. The monitor/cab position is very important... often more than speaker dispersion!
Let me know what you think!

You’re right that the cabinet affects directivity. And you’re right that the room itself affects response. But even just the driver itself has frequency-dependent directional characteristics.

Here’s a polar plot of a typical speaker. Polar plots are usually taken in free space or in an anechoic chamber, where room effects are minimized.

 

[Rex]

Notice the difference in directional response at different frequencies. At 45° off axis, response is 12 dB down at 8 KHz. But at 500 Hz, response is only 2 dB down. That’s the directional nature of the speaker itself, with no room and no Fletcher-Munson involved.