Solved: FM3 sounded muffled until I positioned my studio monitors appropriately

[austinbuddy]

Please please please don’t hate me, but today I was setting up to record the video to send you guys the boxed sound, and read about maybe making monitors ear level. (Very new to this) so I put them on some old mounts That I was using for tv speakers to get raised level. I apologize to the fractal team and especially @austinbuddy. I guess just even raising them from about 2 and a half feet to now about 4 ft did something and if it’s a placebo effect I’ll take it. Everything is sounding so amazing now with the tweaks you guys recommended and (thanks @chris) that run about noon on the montiors mixed with I guess just making the more ear level really got this thing going. Once again, I’m so sorry I put you guys through this trouble.

Yes - if you go off axis a few feet from any FRFR, just like a guitar cab on stage, you will lose all the high end and just hear mids and lows and it could sound like "a blanket over the speaker" - then you walk back in front of it and all is well. Glad you figured it out! Enjoy the tones!

 

[DougB415]

Please please please don’t hate me, but today I was setting up to record the video to send you guys the boxed sound, and read about maybe making monitors ear level. (Very new to this) so I put them on some old mounts That I was using for tv speakers to get raised level. I apologize to the fractal team and especially @austinbuddy. I guess just even raising them from about 2 and a half feet to now about 4 ft did something and if it’s a placebo effect I’ll take it. Everything is sounding so amazing now with the tweaks you guys recommended and (thanks @chris) that run about noon on the montiors mixed with I guess just making the more ear level really got this thing going. Once again, I’m so sorry I put you guys through this trouble.

Glad you got it sorted out! Yes, tweeters should always be at ear level if possible. Makes a world of difference.

 

[Will Chen]

Please please please don’t hate me, but today I was setting up to record the video to send you guys the boxed sound, and read about maybe making monitors ear level. (Very new to this) so I put them on some old mounts That I was using for tv speakers to get raised level. I apologize to the fractal team and especially @austinbuddy. I guess just even raising them from about 2 and a half feet to now about 4 ft did something and if it’s a placebo effect I’ll take it. Everything is sounding so amazing now with the tweaks you guys recommended and (thanks @chris) that run about noon on the montiors mixed with I guess just making the more ear level really got this thing going. Once again, I’m so sorry I put you guys through this trouble.

Nearfield monitor placement is extremely important. I know guys like to crank things but most nearfields are designed for moderate to lower monitoring at a relatively close distance (the "near" in nearfield).

 

[State of Epicicity]

The thing that’s striking me about this solution is that other modelers sounded good with the monitors at the wrong placement. That makes me wonder if the other modelers would now sound harsh at the correct placement!

 

[austinbuddy]

The thing that’s striking me about this solution is that other modelers sounded good with the monitors at the wrong placement. That makes me wonder if the other modelers would now sound harsh at the correct placement!

One of the main things I do to test FRFRs is to stand in front of them, then walk three or four feet left and three feet right as I play. Some just very narrowly "beam" the sound forward, but not wide. Others have a wider dispersions of the sound -- so your sweet spot on stage is bigger.

Coaxial FRFRs seem to me to work better for this wider dispersion, although I could never prove it technically!

But this is one reason I really like the Atomic NEO CLRs, I had to go 5-6 feet left or right to lose all the highs compared to standing right in front of them. I also use Mission Gemini 2x12 Studio for gigs when I want to it just sound like a real amp, as that FRFR has a good thump to it.

But as you test FRFRs, add that factor into your choices.

 

[Orlando Flores]

Ok, last thing and I’m done. I just realized the mounts I had were 26 inches high, so never had these Adam’s at the recommended height which I should’ve researched! By god, this is like plugging my old Mesa boogie for the first time but I’m now 100 percent on the hype train. These all sound amazing!!! Thanks once again guys. It’s like I’m literally playing with a new toy with the speakers and all the amps now. Blows my fx2 (though an amazing item still) tone out of the water!

 

[TSJMajesty]

Blows my fx2 (though an amazing item still) tone out of the water!

I think that says you found the issue!

 

[Greg Ferguson]

One of the main things I do to test FRFRs is to stand in front of them, then walk three or four feet left and three feet right as I play. Some just very narrowly "beam" the sound forward, but not wide. Others have a wider dispersions of the sound -- so your sweet spot on stage is bigger.

Coaxial FRFRs seem to me to work better for this wider dispersion, although I could never prove it technically!

But this is one reason I really like the Atomic NEO CLRs, I had to go 5-6 feet left or right to lose all the highs compared to standing right in front of them. I also use Mission Gemini 2x12 Studio for gigs when I want to it just sound like a real amp, as that FRFR has a good thump to it.

But as you test FRFRs, add that factor into your choices.

The EVs are advertised as having 90° dispersion, which seems about right when working with them. They have a very wide area where they’re easy to hear.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

I guess just making the more ear level really got this thing going.

High frequencies travel in a direct line, and lows seem to follow walls and the floor. That’s why the highs are more easily heard when they are at ear level, or pointing directly at our ears.

It’s also why a guitar cabinet pointed at our knees sounds completely different than one pointed at our head. The highs are always there, we just need to line them up with our ears.

 

[Orlando Flores]

So I’ve done reasesrch, any recommended height for best results? I’m currently right around 54 inches

 

[Greg Ferguson]

The thing that’s striking me about this solution is that other modelers sounded good with the monitors at the wrong placement. That makes me wonder if the other modelers would now sound harsh at the correct placement!

Very likely.

 

[Rex]

High frequencies travel in a direct line, and lows seem to follow walls and the floor. That’s why the highs are more easily heard when they are at ear level, or pointing directly at our ears.

It’s also why a guitar cabinet pointed at our knees sounds completely different than one pointed at our head. The highs are always there, we just need to line them up with our ears.

Actually, all sound travels is a straight line — regardless of frequency — unless something reflects it or refracts it. The difference is how efficiently a given speaker radiates sound in different directions. At 5 KHz, a typical speaker cabinet concentrates the sound in a narrow cone directly in front of the speaker. At 50 Hz, the same speaker radiates sound at roughly equal levels in all directions. In other words, if you're off axis from a speaker, the sound you'll hear will have lots of lows and not much highs.

 

[Rex]

So I’ve done reasesrch, any recommended height for best results? I’m currently right around 54 inches

The main goal is to have the tweeters pointed at your head so your ears can hear them.

For the best stereo image, mount the speakers so their tweeters are at the same height as your ears. That will be a different height when you're sitting, compared to when you're standing.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

In other words, if you're off axis from a speaker, the sound you'll hear will have lots of lows and not much highs.

That’s something that the coaxial speakers seem to be taming, or controlling better.

 

[Rex]

That’s something that the coaxial speakers seem to be taming, or controlling better.

In general, they do. Part of that is the fact that you don't have two (or more) speakers firing side by side. Mutiple drivers that aren't aligned coaxially will tend to focus the sound in the direction in which they're lined up. That's why line arrays at concert venues have a lot of speakers stacked vertically. That narrows the vertical dispersion, so the sound is focused on the people at the back of the hall, at the expense of the sound that's radiating toward the ceiling. Nobody sits in the ceiling.

 

[skolacki]

That’s something that the coaxial speakers seem to be taming, or controlling better.

Works well with the Celestion F12 that’s for sure.

 

[pauly]

And the phase linearity compared to ‘normal’ speakers makes them sound consistent within the dispersion range. I’ve always had a soft spot for coaxial speakers, but never owned a big pair of Tannoys - go figure!
Thanks
Pauly

That’s something that the coaxial speakers seem to be taming, or controlling better.

 

[Smilzo]

Actually, all sound travels is a straight line — regardless of frequency — unless something reflects it or refracts it. The difference is how efficiently a given speaker radiates sound in different directions. At 5 KHz, a typical speaker cabinet concentrates the sound in a narrow cone directly in front of the speaker. At 50 Hz, the same speaker radiates sound at roughly equal levels in all directions. In other words, if you're off axis from a speaker, the sound you'll hear will have lots of lows and not much highs.

Rex, you're contradicting yourself!
A speaker radiate sound in "straight line". It's all it can do.
We hear both radiate sound & reflected sound. That's why sound change as we move in space and time...
Sorry...
Maybe you mean "cabinet/box/monitor..." radiate sound in different directions (and frequency)?

 

[Rex]

Rex, you're contradicting yourself!
A speaker radiate sound in "straight line". It's all it can do.

That's what I said...

Actually, all sound travels is a straight line — regardless of frequency — unless something reflects it or refracts it.

We hear both radiate sound & reflected sound. That's why sound change as we move in space and time...
Sorry...
Maybe you mean "cabinet/box/monitor..." radiate sound in different directions (and frequency)?

Help me see the contradiction.

 

[Smilzo]

Help me see the contradiction.

If sound travel linearly, it can't radiate non linear from the speaker.
Maybe efficiency for the "frequency radiation" of a sound it's not the proper terms. All frequency radiate "linearly". The higher freq permeate less than lower freq. They are absorbed more. Also, sum of waves of different lengths boost frequencies (highs or lows). The membrane of a cone isn't a single source, but a sum of "source" due to imperfection of real material (paper, fiber, coils, rings...). A speaker monitor is design to beam the sound in front and rear, a cabinet to contain the sound on the back and disperse it in a pleasantly way. The room plays a crucial role, more than the frequency radiation of the cab. If you rotate the monitor you will noy change the speaker sound. If you place in a corner, or in the middle of the room you are "eq-ing" your sound drastically. It's not the cab to change perceived freq radiation, but the room and listener position. Enough rant for me!