Showing up to gigs that expect you to use a backline with the AxeFx...

[northtrader]

Can folks recommend a good DI box, or the DI box you've used with success and is of acceptable quality?

Believe it or not, I've had great success with this:

A passive impedance matching transformer from Radio Schack: Part 274-017. (30Kohm to 600ohm). Just got a pair of them off ebay for $7.50 (free shipping). They can also be had at http://www.weirdstuff.com/cgi-bin/item/20724

They've worked so well for me that I bought a few, opened them up, removed the transformer and wired them into the custom input/output bar I made for my Ultra. (always having to access the back of the Ultra got old so I built the bar to "move the jacks to the front" so to speak)
I take the unbalanced out from Output 1 at the back of the Ultra, run each channel (left, right) through an impedance matching transformer from the 274-017 (one for each channel) and straight to the male XLR outs on my bar. Beautiful, clean, clear, mic level, balanced signal from my Ultra. At gigs I just take the "mic" cable, plug into the left output (in mono) and start to play. Never had issues with hot "mic" levels at the board.

 

[zslane]

So, is there an impedance mismatch between the Axe-FX and PA mixing boards or not? LMO says there isn't. Is there a level difference between line-level and mic-level that can't be handled by adjusting the output level knob of the Axe-FX itself? LMO seems to be saying there isn't. Then again, I could just be completely misunderstanding the issue being discussed.

 

[northtrader]

I don't think there is an impedance mismatch between the Axe balanced outs and PA mixing board mic inputs. I realized now that some details in my post were incorrect. I use the impedance matching transformers for running the unbalanced outs from Output 1 to a balanced mic level input on the board. I apologise for my error - I've edited the post to reflect this.

 

[Sidivan]

I'm really confused here. So far, I've used the balanced xlr out into a mic strip on the board and haven't run into a single issue. At one venue I had to turn my output knob down, but that's it. Why would I need a di box?

 

[Zman]

I have never had problem just turn the output level down to about 25%. Its funny though many times the sound guy will say You know those pods sound better if we just mic your cab. Then try to explain to them its not a pod! And then they are like we can go direct but with hesitation in there voice and shaking there head until they hear it and then they are like WTF!

 

[Scott Peterson]

So, is there an impedance mismatch between the Axe-FX and PA mixing boards or not? LMO says there isn't. Is there a level difference between line-level and mic-level that can't be handled by adjusting the output level knob of the Axe-FX itself? LMO seems to be saying there isn't. Then again, I could just be completely misunderstanding the issue being discussed.

I'm really confused here. So far, I've used the balanced xlr out into a mic strip on the board and haven't run into a single issue. At one venue I had to turn my output knob down, but that's it. Why would I need a di box?

No impedance mismatch. Some of the mixing boards I've run into in clubs cannot handle the XLR out level. The Blind Pig in Ann Arbor, MI and Small's in Hamtramck, MI were two well known old-school rooms that I ran into that could not handle it, even with the level cranked way down on my output. So since I had my DI box in my gig bag, I used the lower level output of the 1/4" and was using the DI to change it to a XLR to go into the snake. It worked like a charm, and I've never given it another thought. Most rooms can just take a line level from the stage, no problem. If they tell me the level is too hot, I just use the 1/4" output on Output 1 and they never have an issue. Hence, my advice.

 

[hippietim]

I'm running my Axe-FX signal XLR out into a Rane SM26. I can have completely different levels for each L/R for stage and FOH. Between the Axe-FX out, the main level on the SM26, and the individual output channel levels on the SM26 I can feed just about any level I need to and I still have the 1/4" in/out for the loop.

http://www.rane.com/sm26s.html

Having said that, I haven't played through anyone else's FOH since I got this but I'm thinking this'll cover it.

 

[TheOtherDave]

I ask that they flatten the EQ curve on the input channel.

Suppose they won't do this. Suppose they feel that they have each cab mic EQ'ed properly and don't want to have to change it for every act that hops up on stage. Have you ever dealt with a sound team that refused to change the EQ for you, or perhaps there simply wasn't time/opportunity to communicate/persuade this request, and you had to live with whatever EQ curve they put on your line? If so, how much does it typically mess up your tone? I realize it is only FOH (the audience) that is hearing it that way and not you (your stage monitor is fed directly from your AFX tweaked to your exact specs), but maybe someone in the audience told you how it sounded?

No huge issues yet. Remember, these festival gigs are 1 hour sets. It's not life or death for me. I get paid to play for an hour, whether or not the sound crew massacres the sound or it is a glorious mix. I don't sweat it. Most of the bigger festivals around here use good sound companies - it's not been an issue for me. I've gotten really nothing more than 100% positive feedback for over 3 years from the sound guys and the crowds alike.

Plus, most of the consoles that I've used that are big enough to bring to a festival have an EQ bypass button. The FOH & Mon engineers just have to push a button (or two for stereo) at the beginning of the set, and again at the end to go back to their pre-mic'd cab sound.

 

[voes]

I always use my Axe-FX XLR out. If it's there, why not use it I wonder?
Why use external devices to do the same thing? Makes things unnecessary complex IMHO? you have to have extra cables, which can go broken and an external stereo DI.
Line/Mic level differences?? well I got a very simple solution to that. On my global EQ, I set the master to Minimum (-12dB) and adjust the master out on the front (10' o clock). Never had an issue on stage about my input level! 8)

 

[Dutch]

There were quite a few units that had badly designed xlr-outs just to be able to add it on the spec sheet and tout pro features. Nothinng like that with the Axe of course. Still, any engineer will choose their own DI over built-in solutions, just to be sure. First time I played out I had one too. He thought there was a lot of noise coming from the axe, but I'm pretty sure it was just hugely loud at the time. Would have taken his speakers out if i'd have played a note.


I have this tiny Behringer DI20 dual di that works fine and sounds way better than the passive DI's we used, especially for acoustics (Monacor or Rapco OSLT, not super-pro stuff but I've seen these everywhere, the Behringer beat them easily in clarity and frequency spectrum).

It's small, active (phantom), can be used stereo or mono through, has two pads of 10 dB per piece.
Perfect, really.

Only drawback is it's made by Behringer... But usually when Behringer stuff works it works well and will work for a quite a while. This unit is pretty solid so long as you don't play baseball with it.
Funny is it's cheaper than the DI100, but has the exact same functionality with ADDED stereo/dual mono function. And it's not so easy to set wrong. We used a DI100 for my acoustic a couple of months ago, but someone had accidentally pushed one of the pad switches in. They stick out. Played my ass off and nobody could hear it. No chance of that with the DI20's recessed sliders.

 

[michl_666]

Millenium here ...

I have this tiny Behringer DI20 dual di that works fine and sounds way better than the passive DI's we used, especially for acoustics (Monacor or Rapco OSLT, not super-pro stuff but I've seen these everywhere, the Behringer beat them easily in clarity and frequency spectrum).

It's small, active (phantom), can be used stereo or mono through, has two pads of 10 dB per piece.
Perfect, really.
Only drawback is it's made by Behringer... Usually when Behringer stuff works it works well and will work for a long time though. This unit is pretty solid.
Funny is it's cheaper than the DI100, but has the exact same functionality with ADDED stereo/dual mono function. And it's not so easy to set wrong. We used a DI100 for my acoustic a couple of months ago, but someone had accidentally pushed one of the pad switches in. They stick out. No chance of that with the DI20's recessed sliders.

My friend did some measuring and said, that you have to be careful with the input signal not being too hot or the behringer DI will make weird things. I have one of the as backup, too.
In my setup, I have two of these passive millenium DIs, because they where already there.

Cheapo but good. Work like a charm and do not harm the sound.

Cheers!

 

[guitarman19853]

Scott and others that use the 1/4" outputs to feed a DI, do you connect the Axe to the DI with an unbalanced TS cable or balanced TRS? I guess it depends if the DI can handle balanced or unbalanced.

I have been running my Axe into a mic level input the entire time I've been using it. That would explain why I have to keep the volume knob under 30% or they tell me that I'm clipping on the board.

What I don't really understand is why the XLR outputs on the unit are line level in the first place. From what it seems, line level inputs on most boards are 1/4" inputs and mic level is XLR. It seems silly to have to skip the XLR outs on the Axe, take the 1/4" out to a DI box and then to an XLR.

 

[hippietim]

The 1/4" outs on the Axe-FX are unbalanced.

 

[Sixstring]

Which one do you get though? They have four different attenuation models. Do you plan to get one of each?

No, a -20db pad will be fine and will put you in the ball park for the sound man to properly adjust the input levels. Any DI will also work providing they had a padding option but you will have to use OP-2 in order for that option to work. The Radial DI that scott is using is a great way to go but if your running stereo they can get pricy...

Turning down the output levels OP-1 will result in to much noise floor to the board, I know this because I have already fought this issue trying to get the head amps on the crummy board we use (NO PADING options) to run in a respectable position.

 

[Lution]

The Live Wire DI box seems to be a less expensive solution. This one should work fine going from 1/4" output 1 to DI to snake/mic input on the board shouldn't it?:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live-Wire-Solutions-SPDI-Passive-Direct-Box-with-Attenuation-Pad?sku=150449

 

[Tone Seeker]

I'm curious. Has anyone run into ground loop issues? If so, what was your tool / method of choice to deal with it?

Terry.

 

[Scott Peterson]

I'm curious. Has anyone run into ground loop issues? If so, what was your tool / method of choice to deal with it?

Terry.

No, I have not. Any good DI will have a ground lift though.

 

[s0c9]

Any SR provider (Festival or house) worth a d*mn has DI's a plenty! I have about 10 of them (varying brands/types/features) and I'm a very SMALL provider. It probably doesn't hurt to carry your own, but should not be a requirement. Certainly don't need Radial quality for live work (tho' I'd be happy if you brought one).

Unless the venue is ANCIENT, most [modern] consoles with a decent channel count (16+) have: phantom power (some per channel); EQ bypass button; swept (parametric) EQ's; line/mic switch (or equivalent pad capability); mono/stereo channels; yada, yada, yada.

It [still] amazes me from reading this thread that SR providers you guys are working with do not appear to have the basic gear needed to adjust to something small like direct feed vs. mic. I would never provide SR for a festival without advancing it - getting stage plots, band order, tech riders (if any) and so on. Not doing so [IMHO] is like you showing up to a gig without your guitar!!

 

[wildstar]

Any SR provider (Festival or house) worth a d*mn has DI's a plenty! I have about 10 of them (varying brands/types/features) and I'm a very SMALL provider. It probably doesn't hurt to carry your own, but should not be a requirement. Certainly don't need Radial quality for live work (tho' I'd be happy if you brought one).

Unless the venue is ANCIENT, most [modern] consoles with a decent channel count (16+) have: phantom power (some per channel); EQ bypass button; swept (parametric) EQ's; line/mic switch (or equivalent pad capability); mono/stereo channels; yada, yada, yada.

It [still] amazes me from reading this thread that SR providers you guys are working with do not appear to have the basic gear needed to adjust to something small like direct feed vs. mic. I would never provide SR for a festival without advancing it - getting stage plots, band order, tech riders (if any) and so on. Not doing so [IMHO] is like you showing up to a gig without your guitar!!

I hear what you're saying.

But think of it this way: in any live sound situation, there are so many variables and so many little things that can go wrong. Any one of those little things can bring your tech setup to a screeching halt.

So it doesn't hurt, and costs a small amount of money, to be prepared for the unexpected! Lots of us (myself included) don't play larger venues, and/or nicely equipped venues, and/or even PROPERLY equipped venues.

What kind of unexpected little things? I'll list a few from my own (limited) experience as a performer, and (limited) experience on sound crew:

the dirtbags in the previous band STOLE the house DIs

the intern stage hand assisting you insists he will only plug you into the snake via a DI, since that's what he's been told to do for synths, and the engineer who knows better is 100' away at FOH, and you have five minutes to plug in, power up, and soundcheck

someone spilled soda on the console, the Line Input channels are fried, and the mic channels don't have pads

you need the XLR outs of the Axe for your personal monitoring setup - no house monitors - and you have to connect the unbalanced 1/4" outs to the house PA

the engineer insists that you HAVE to use a DI, even though your Axe is three feet from his console, and you have handed him a XLR cable connected to the Axe's XLR out, and politely suggested he just plug it right into a mic input which you can see has a pad -- not making this one up

I'm sure others can think of dozens more scenarios.

Not saying these situations are right... or best practice...

but i do think it's best practice and "stage smart" to bring some basic Swiss Army Knife-type tools to the gig.

Cheers -- am enjoying this conversation, and hope my posts (and opinions) aren't coming across as rude or disrespectful

 

[LMO]

So, is there an impedance mismatch between the Axe-FX and PA mixing boards or not? LMO says there isn't. Is there a level difference between line-level and mic-level that can't be handled by adjusting the output level knob of the Axe-FX itself? LMO seems to be saying there isn't. Then again, I could just be completely misunderstanding the issue being discussed.

I'll defer to Scott that there are some venues where a DI is needed. Back east there are probably sound systems in use that were installed while we were still waiting on Lewis and Clarke.

What gadgets people carry along in their toolkits would probably make for an interesting thread by itself.