Question about Shreddy Death Metal tone "fizziness"?

[tysonlt]

I'd wager 90% of your problem is using WAY too much gain. You've got a really high gain amp with a 12 dB boost on, Saturation on, AND an Drive block in front. There's nothing left of the original guitar signal but mush and fizz. You hit the point of diminishing return with gain a few miles back.

Yep, I think if we could get a preset file it would answer a lot of questions. As Cliff said, something is clipping somewhere, Sounds like inputs are being slammed at multiple points on the grid to me.

@strabes you can view all of the meters at once on the grid, just click right a few times on the front panel (I think, away from Axe atm). This will let you see all of the block levels at once. You will see which one(s) are clipping.

 

[Fjelltronen]

As an aside, for when whatever overriding issues are resolved, I am a big fan of turning down the high treble control in the 'ideal' tab a bit for my high gain sounds. To my ears it makes the modelling even more organic. I do like a darker tone, however...

 

[Aeser]

yes, the clipping in all the presets you posted that I tried was fixed by simply resetting the amp block. I didn't check the other blocks, bypassing them was my way of isolating the issue down to the amp block. I don't know which of the hundreds of parameters in the amp block was set incorrectly so whenever I have something weird going on with the amp block, resetting it back to its defaults is a sure fire way to fix it.

It's possible there's issues with the other blocks too, but you need to get the amp block fixed first, then turn on the other blocks one at a time to see if they're causing issues.

i'm not buying that completely as like i said the stock presets that come with the axe fx do it too as do brand new stock amp blocks for me as well so i know you're really angling at the i'm just a big dumb dumb who keeps dialing in fizz in all my amp blocks answer and if that were the case i would (and believe it or not i actually HAVE, many times) just started over with a new blank amp block and built it up from there to get rid of that fizzy crackly. believe it or not i'm not dialing in that fizz and then going "AH! PERFECT!" and leaving that as is.

All I'm using on those high gain metal presets is the input block, often a stock untouched studio FF compressor block, a T808 Mod drive block with distortion turned all the way to 0, tone to 6, and level to 10, a wah block set to cry baby (nothing changed sound wise), the amp block, cab block, and output block, so there is the amp block but i'm usually changing those settings very minimally on most presets. once in a while they'll be changed a lot but it still does it on ALL of them regardless so i'm not buying that i'm just dialing it in, i left most of the controls alone unless i discovered it iproved ther tone for me, and like i keep saying i get that fizzy crackle even without touching anything in the amp block. I een posed an audio example of a completely untouched preset with the fractal skull crusher amp and a cab block, input block output block and that was IT, completely untouched, and you can still hear it, it's not as pronounced as others but it's there.

 

[strabes]

i'm not buying that

Screen recording showing that turning down the amp level parameter fixes your problem entirely: https://www.dropbox.com/s/18grhtswe0ywp7r/2023-11-27 amp volumes.m4v?dl=0

The factory presets are a good reference for the level your own presets should be.

i know you're really angling at the i'm just a big dumb dumb who keeps dialing in fizz in all my amp blocks answer

I really haven't been trying to be insulting in my posts here, except maybe the horse comment in jest. Multiple people are sincerely trying to help you but you seem unwilling to accept the fact that your amp blocks are too loud, despite several people telling you this including the founder of Fractal Audio.

 

[Aeser]

I'd wager 90% of your problem is using WAY too much gain. You've got a really high gain amp with a 12 dB boost on, Saturation on, AND an Drive block in front. There's nothing left of the original guitar signal but mush and fizz. You hit the point of diminishing return with gain a few miles back.

Most of my presets are between 5-7 on the gain and the drive block is at 0 on the gain and 10 on the level and the 12db boost is just the default, i didn't turn it up to that i just didn't turn it down. the presets are for high gain metal, which you tend to turn the gain up on.

 

[Aeser]

Screen recording: https://www.dropbox.com/s/18grhtswe0ywp7r/2023-11-27 amp volumes.m4v?dl=0

The factory presets are a good reference for the level your own presets should be.


I really haven't been trying to be insulting in my posts here, except maybe the horse comment in jest. Multiple people are sincerely trying to help you but you seem unwilling to accept the fact that your amp blocks are too loud, despite several people telling you this including the founder of Fractal Audio.

you have seemed to be rather condescending to me here and yet i've still been taking your, and everyone else's advice regardless. i'm far from unwilling to accept my presets are too loud in fact like i already said twice now, i said as much in my first post of the links to the presets so people wouldn't blow out their speakers. and i only had to pull the stupid credential card because you were treating me like someone who knows nothing, and while i far from know everything, i do know some things (obviously not THIS as i'm asking you all about it). Perhaps it was in jest but it didn't come off that way to me which is why i acted as i did. Like i said you appear to know what youre talking about for the most part and i hate having to try to pull credentials to prove to other that i do as well but whatever. I did get a lot of good information in this thread and while i have not yet "solved it" i'd say i've diminished it about 90-95% with a combination of things people said here.

 

[Shask]

Most of my presets are between 5-7 on the gain and the drive block is at 0 on the gain and 10 on the level and the 12db boost is just the default, i didn't turn it up to that i just didn't turn it down. the presets are for high gain metal, which you tend to turn the gain up on.

The drive level doesnt need to be on 10 in the Fractal like they do on the real pedals. Only turn it to 1-2 oclock. That will sound better.

 

[Aeser]

So as I just said thank you all for your advice a combination of it seems to have helped GREATLY. I still get some sort of fizzy air on a FEW presets if i let a palm mute ring out, but it's almost entirely gone and that's only on some presets, and for the most part i'm able to dial in usable presets now by:

1: going to the preset leveling tool in tools in axe edit and turning them down to about -35 then saving them
2: turning on plate suppressor diodes under the power tubes page
3: switching the power to DC on the power supply page
4: turning the master bias excursion to 0 on the dynamics page
5: lowering the high cut in the Cab's "Cab More" page to 10,000 and increasing the high slope to 24db/Oct on each mic/speaker
6: On many but not all turning the boost level down to 6 from the default of 12
7: changing the saturation drive to 2.000 from 6.000
8: changing the low cut frequency to 20hz and the high cut frequency to 10,000hz
9: again not on all of them but changing the tonestack frequency to 600 from 1000 (if it was even set to 1000)
10: on a few turning treble/presence down a bit
11: in extreme cases where there was still too much fizz turning off the input boost.
12: in cases where i had both a GEQ and PEQ after the amp, got rid of at least the GEQ

So in any case this combination of things has helped greatly so thank you all for these suggestions (especially #2/3/4 as i NEVER in a million years would have thought of that and those things seemed to actually make the biggest difference).

SO i still don't know why i get some fizzy air a tiny bit on a few of them (i don't with the les paul so i suspect it's the active pickups? that's about the only difference, plus if i turn the active pickup guitars tone knob all the way to muddy, 100% the opposite of how i want it to sound, it chills out).

 

[Aeser]

Yep, I think if we could get a preset file it would answer a lot of questions. As Cliff said, something is clipping somewhere, Sounds like inputs are being slammed at multiple points on the grid to me.

i did post links to a bunch of presets i uploaded back in september to axe change if you'd like to mess around with them. a lot of them have changed a lot since then too.

 

[Shask]

So as I just said thank you all for your advice a combination of it seems to have helped GREATLY. I still get some sort of fizzy air on a FEW presets if i let a palm mute ring out, but it's almost entirely gone and that's only on some presets, and for the most part i'm able to dial in usable presets now by:

1: going to the preset leveling tool in tools in axe edit and turning them down to about -35 then saving them
2: turning on plate suppressor diodes under the power tubes page
3: switching the power to DC on the power supply page
4: turning the master bias excursion to 0 on the dynamics page
5: lowering the high cut in the Cab's "Cab More" page to 10,000 and increasing the high slope to 24db/Oct on each mic/speaker
6: On many but not all turning the boost level down to 6 from the default of 12
7: changing the saturation drive to 2.000 from 6.000
8: changing the low cut frequency to 20hz and the high cut frequency to 10,000hz
9: again not on all of them but changing the tonestack frequency to 600 from 1000 (if it was even set to 1000)
10: on a few turning treble/presence down a bit
11: in extreme cases where there was still too much fizz turning off the input boost.
12: in cases where i had both a GEQ and PEQ after the amp, got rid of at least the GEQ

So in any case this combination of things has helped greatly so thank you all for these suggestions (especially #2/3/4 as i NEVER in a million years would have thought of that and those things seemed to actually make the biggest difference).

SO i still don't know why i get some fizzy air a tiny bit on a few of them (i don't with the les paul so i suspect it's the active pickups? that's about the only difference, plus if i turn the active pickup guitars tone knob all the way to muddy, 100% the opposite of how i want it to sound, it chills out).

Do you use the intelligent gate in the input block? Switch that to the classic gate and see if it goes away as you let palm mutes ring out.

 

[tysonlt]

i did post links to a bunch of presets i uploaded back in september to axe change if you'd like to mess around with them. a lot of them have changed a lot since then too.

To make it easier for people to help, can you post a recent one that hasn't changed, that you used to create the recording.

 

[Aeser]

To make it easier for people to help, can you post a recent one that hasn't changed, that you used to create the recording.

Absolutely, just give me a few as i'm on a call and i'll upload one that still has lots of fizz as it is to axe change and post a link here. Thanks!

 

[tysonlt]

Absolutely, just give me a few as i'm on a call and i'll upload one that still has lots of fizz as it is to axe change and post a link here. Thanks!

Or just post it directly here. Axechange is not really for debugging presets that aren’t working.

 

[Aeser]

Here you go

 

[Exeter]

So I just tried your preset and it immediately hit the red and almost blew my ear drums out. Your amp blocks are way too loud with how you have the master volumes cranked. Even turning those down there's just way too much again, its going to fizz and sound like crap.

 

[Exeter]

I toyed around a bit with scene 1 a bit. I think the tone your going for is there. I would personally tweak it a bit more but I'm no expert by any means.

 

[AndrewJay]

Hi Aeser, I just took a look at your preset. As soon as I touched my fretting hand to the strings, the Output 1 meters immediately maxed out and clipped. There is a lot of signal and gain in your preset that is just slamming the output. In order to get it to not clip I had to reduce each Amp Block's Level to -38. For reference I am playing through a Gibson LP Custom with a higher end of medium output bridge humbucker. Anything too much more than that in the Level control and it starts to clip fast. There are other adjustments and refinements you can make in order to get the tone and response you want, but the first thing I highly suggest bringing down the Amp level control until the Output 1 block meters are barely touching the red. The sound will change because you won't be clipping the signal and from there you can make adjustments to the tone.

Edit: Or you can just try out Exeter's edited version of your preset which on my system is not clipping at all.

 

[Aeser]

Tests from other users presets off axe change

for the hell of it i auditioned a bunch of user presets that demonstrated the fizz/crackle issue, so i know it's not just me. you can listen above (if you want to do that to yourself) WAY more fizziness towards the end too btw not much in the begining.

 

[Aeser]

So I just tried your preset and it immediately hit the red and almost blew my ear drums out. Your amp blocks are way too loud with how you have the master volumes cranked. Even turning those down there's just way too much again, its going to fizz and sound like crap.

Yes i am sorry about that. but i DID warn like 10 times about that.

 

[jephjacques]

Just loaded up your preset and WHY ARE YOUR LEVELS SO HIGH. Your amp outputs should be at like -12db to start, not 0. Why are you boosting the speaker blocks by 7db? Are you monitoring through a tin can 100 yards away? And you need to turn off some of these gain stages. You don't need a T808 into an input boost into a skull crusher. Why do you have the speaker levels boosted? And you have EQ on top of EQ on top of EQ. This is crazy overkill. Turn off all the EQs, stop messing with advanced parameters, and start learning how to dial in an amp just with the knobs on the front and the cab block. AND TURN YOUR LEVELS DOWN (typing in all caps because you must be deaf if that's how you play guitar)