Just had a "eureka" moment with PAF pickups

So I finally got an answer on the magnets from the official reseller at WD Music;

The Icon series pickups that are sold under the Kent Armstrong brand are Alnico 3 magnets. Kluson is introducing this pickup design with Alnico 2 magnets and nickel silver baseplates in about 30 days.
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Apparently they are in process of liquidating the Kent Armstrong line. The winding recipes that are designed by Dave will be released under the Kluson brand. The Kent Armstrong US made hand wound KAHW- series will only be available from Kent in Vermont.
 
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I love pafs but I don't like those. Out of the cheapos I think Tonerider get my vote and overall the Throbak 101 is as good as the real thing.
 
Andy Eagle said:
I love pafs but I don't like those. Out of the cheapos I think Tonerider get my vote and overall the Throbak 101 is as good as the real thing.
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+1 for Tonerider , i have The A4 set in a 335 style and love them . I would like to try their A2 set for sure .
 
I have real PAF's, and the truth is they varied greatly over the years (I have had them since the early 70's), so saying one modern clone is realer than another is kind of impossible.

As long as the basic construction techniques and components are ballpark, at that point it's totally subjective, so just use the ones you like best for all the other variables that need to be taken into account like guitar construction, scale length, string type, bridge type, pick, playing style, player skill, music style and amp/cab choice, etc, etc, etc.
 
DJD100 said:
I have real PAF's, and the truth is they varied greatly over the years (I have had them since the early 70's), so saying one modern clone is realer than another is kind of impossible.

As long as the basic construction techniques and components are ballpark, at that point it's totally subjective, so just use the ones you like best for all the other variables that need to be taken into account like guitar construction, scale length, string type, bridge type, pick, playing style, player skill, music style and amp/cab choice, etc, etc, etc.
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I disagree because the only difference is the wind and if it has a cover or not. I have a real paf too and I see them all the time and yes they vary but they tend to share a similar character that is certainly not in a lot of other pickups trying to be PAF style.
 
Main point I was trying to make with this post is that you chase every minutiae detail of tone... upgrade the pots, caps, shielded cable, bridge, nut, and even the type of glue used in the tenon joint. None of these details have as big of an impact as the pickups by a long mile. Are there better pickups out there? Definitely. For the money though I was shocked at how good these sound, even compared to my "real" custombuckers which are designed to be exact replicas of the 1950's PAFs.
 
Colorado Axeman said:
Main point I was trying to make with this post is that you chase every minutiae detail of tone... upgrade the pots, caps, shielded cable, bridge, nut, and even the type of glue used in the tenon joint. None of these details have as big of an impact as the pickups by a long mile. Are there better pickups out there? Definitely. For the money though I was shocked at how good these sound, even compared to my "real" custombuckers which are designed to be exact replicas of the 1950's PAFs.
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Depends what you started with and if the rest of the instrument works in a complimentary way. I get your point though.
 
Andy Eagle said:
I disagree because the only difference is the wind and if it has a cover or not. I have a real paf too and I see them all the time and yes they vary but they tend to share a similar character that is certainly not in a lot of other pickups trying to be PAF style.
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At least two of the four holy winder's auto-stops were broken at times in the 50's as I understand it, so many 50's PAF's were wound by sight, plus the sand cast mags that were sourced were not as consistent as today's.

Modern pups "trying" to be PAF's are not PAF clones, rather they're just being marketed to the gullible. There are countless true modern PAF clones available where the builder actually succeeds and isn't just "trying". Also remember that people trying to clone a real PAF today have to deal with the real PAF's mag's age as well, so they sound different today than they did when new.

Again, lots of quality builders have sweated the details, and they build some great modern PAF's in various windings, though you have to pay for them.
 
DJD100 said:
At least two of the four holy winder's auto-stops were broken at times in the 50's as I understand it, so many 50's PAF's were wound by sight, plus the sand cast mags that were sourced were not as consistent as today's.

Modern pups "trying" to be PAF's are not PAF clones, rather they're just being marketed to the gullible. There are countless true modern PAF clones available where the builder actually succeeds and isn't just "trying". Also remember that people trying to clone a real PAF today have to deal with the real PAF's mag's age as well, so they sound different today than they did when new.

Again, lots of quality builders have sweated the details, and they build some great modern PAF's in various windings, though you have to pay for them.
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I play real ones all the time and have had sets from all the best guys doing it today , I have a set of Ron Ellis pafs in an RG 550 just because I had them in the draw and the RG needed something way more because this particular one has a really good acoustic tone. I have a set of Throbaks in my PRS and I have put them in many vintage Gibsons that had lost their pickups in the distant past. By far my favourites are Throbak and Tom Holmes but a lot of guys are making very good sounding low output Paf ish pickups. Yes I have played bad sounding originals but even those are better than a lot of the "clones". The good ones are easily identified by the sonic width they seem to have, clarity and cut without harsh and bass with piano like treble. Warmth and clarity at the same time and yes they need to be fitted on a guitar that has excellent acoustic properties to work to their best.

Also it is silly to say that they are marketing to the gullible when you admit that some of these have succeeded in producing the results.
What 50s and early 60s Gibsons have you played?
 
Andy Eagle said:
I play real ones all the time and have had sets from all the best guys doing it today , I have a set of Ron Ellis pafs in an RG 550 just because I had them in the draw and the RG needed something way more because this particular one has a really good acoustic tone. I have a set of Throbaks in my PRS and I have put them in many vintage Gibsons that had lost their pickups in the distant past. By far my favourites are Throbak and Tom Holmes but a lot of guys are making very good sounding low output Paf ish pickups. Yes I have played bad sounding originals but even those are better than a lot of the "clones". The good ones are easily identified by the sonic width they seem to have, clarity and cut without harsh and bass with piano like treble. Warmth and clarity at the same time and yes they need to be fitted on a guitar that has excellent acoustic properties to work to their best.

Also it is silly to say that they are marketing to the gullible when you admit that some of these have succeeded in producing the results.
What 50s and early 60s Gibsons have you played?
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Damn, if you think Throbaks are pricey, try searching for Tom Holmes pickups. They're at a level where they don't even list their pickups or pricing on their site, but they look to be $1500-2k for a pair even used.
 
I've owned and/or played most every 50's and early 60's Gibson model guitar model made with PAF's, LP's, ES's etc, plus early 60's PAT# guitars like ES's and SG/LP's etc.

When I started playing professionally you could buy PAF equipped Gibsons for a few hundred bucks. I bought my first set of bare PAF's for $150. Back in the 70's many were getting rid of their PAF's for the new hotter Super Distortion pups to hit their amps harder LOL!

My point was only that that real PAF's don't all sound the same, and that you can't get a great sounding PAF clone for $25 on a Stew Mac, eBay or Reverb.

Sheptone is another great winder who's repaired my PAF's in the past, along with the ones you mentioned and others who sweat the details when cloning 50's PAF's.

Cheers...
 
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Dave Merrill said:
Damn, if you think Throbaks are pricey, try searching for Tom Holmes pickups. They're at a level where they don't even list their pickups or pricing on their site, but they look to be $1500-2k for a pair even used.
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I know I just fitted a couple of sets that Tom sent. They are a lot less new but he is retiring and these will probably be the last ones wound for me.
 
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