Jay Mitchell and the power of flat response

Jay, im curious why you have puportedly have no interest in developing this as a retail application? Too time consuming relative to the potential return? Sorry to probe ...
 
Jay Mitchell said:
I knew there would be a difference, but my expectation was that it would be relatively small and that a given listener/player could not be expected to prefer one over the other. I was wrong. The difference was not subtle by any definition of the word, and it was immediately clear to both of us that my monitor was significantly more transparent than the TS.
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So Jay, where does an Axe-playing, non-contractor average Joe like myself start to look for a speaker that's likely to exhibit that kind of difference in transparency — one that's designed with similar requirements in mind — short of stealing one from a Frazier-loaded facility?
 
LMO said:
What is the relationship between this unit and Frazier?
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In the OP

"Jay Mitchell is out of control in sound land. The Frazier speaker I played through is simply the best, deepest FRFR experience I have ever had. I pestered Jay all day Saturday....."
 
(sixstring) Scotts not a bad idea... though I would suggest a tube power amp with a neutral guitar speaker for the guy looking for the traditional rig, then the high end FRFR rig. This way you take care of both camps.
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Maybe so huh? Design the Atomic GO hard over into traditional guitar land. That would also open up another interesting possibility for the traditional guitar speaker guy. Guitar speaker guys could buy one of each and run a very powerful wet/dry rig. Run dry amp simulator tone to the Atomic GO and then run ambient and modulatory effects 100% wet to the Atomic FRFR. The traditional cabinet guy could have his guitar cabinet experience punchy and dry and then surround it with the Axe ambient effects represented in full FRFR detail from a separate sound source. Wet/dry and wet/dry/wet rigs sound huge and glorious when done properly. For FOH you could send the sound man two signals, one dry and one wet, and let him mix your chosen ambient effects to suit the room.

P.S. My brain has broken loose from its' moorings. I'm having an insomnia night.
 
Now that Scotts is asleep... Jay has left us with a problem.

He obviously has a significantly better monitor than we do. But he won't sell them (The Rock) and says he has no clue what is available out there so there's no point in asking him for a comparable solution (The Hard Place).

I guess asking Jay if he would care to share the components and plans would be equally fruitless.

Actually I wouldn't either if I were him. People DIY them with the wrong dimension and go flame him if they don't perform. Or the company he sells the plans to screws up and people blame him... Or...

We're screwed.
 
(Dutch) Jay has left us with a problem. He obviously has a significantly better monitor than we do.
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HaHa Dutch! I'm not asleep yet. Starting to feel the fuzzy skin thing but not quite ready to pass out yet.
T-t-t-time f-f-for one...more...puh...puh...puh...post

(Rex) All we know for sure is that he has a significantly better monitor than scotts has.
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Indeed. One would have to have ears on experience with everything that everyone owns to make an accurate all-encompassing generalization.

Having said that, from my knowledge base and experience it is reasonable for me to assume that there is a high likelihood that not many people own flatter response gear than Jay. I am quite certain that there is not a mid-line JBL, Mackie, Turbosound or Tannoy product that can even be considered competitive with Jay's system as I have extensive experience with those products.

Mmmmm... sleepy time finally.
 
Sixstring said:
neutral guitar speaker
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Why are people constantly talking about neutral guitar speaker/amp.

To me it sounds like f... ... having sex for virginity.


Guitar related amplification is meant to have a sound, not to have an HiFi reproduction.
 
If you want a nice flat solution just buy D&B Audio stuff. I ask a friend of mine who is the owner of a professional audio rental service company. The D&B Audio stuff is the only thing he would use. I wrote my impressions about a D&B Monitor somewhere in this forum.
"D&B power amp+ D&B floormonitor (passiv) (R) (I borrowed it from a friend)
This is the FRFR solution which sounds very very close to a real amp. Tight bass and an overall flat response. The drawback is that this setup costs more than 5000 euros. I just wanted to know whether a highend FRFR solution could do the job of a guitar power amp+cab. And in my opinion this solution can do it for me. There is still a little bit….. but the flexibility convinced me. So the task was to find a FRFR solution which is not as expensive as the D&B stuff.
"
I asked him for a good suggestions for the mid range speakers and he said that RCF are the best speakers for none professional use. That`s why I use an RCF NX m12a and it is a very good speaker but costs around 1400Euros. If you want more take the TT25-SMA or TT45-SMA. But then you are in the price range > 2000 Euros..

Cheers,
PhillAnselmo
 
GiRa said:
Why are people constantly talking about neutral guitar speaker/amp.

To me it sounds like f... ... having sex for virginity.


Guitar related amplification is meant to have a sound, not to have an HiFi reproduction.
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Because the Axe-FX is what's defining the sound - with the amp, cab and effects. The power amp and speaker need to be fully neutral (FRFR) to be able to reproduce those sounds with perfection - how they're "supposed to sound". If the speaker isn't fully neutral, it will alter the sound. Like painting a picture on a blue background. It will look different than if you had painted it on a neutral, white background.
 
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The good news about the Axe-FX is that for many of us it cured us of our GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome).

Unfortunately, now it seems many of the folks here have fallen victim to FRFRMAS (Full Range Flat Response Monitor Acquisition Syndrome).

I suggest you seek help.
 
GiRa said:
Why are people constantly talking about neutral guitar speaker/amp.

To me it sounds like f... ... having sex for virginity.


Guitar related amplification is meant to have a sound, not to have an HiFi reproduction.
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In this case, the Axe-Fx is the "guitar related" part of the equation. Assuming you are able to produce the sound you want from it - not a given by any means - then the amplification you need to use is not "guitar related amplification." If I had not been able to get my Axe-Fx to do exactly what I wanted on its own, with no external Band-Aids, I would not be an Axe-Fx owner.
 
Rex said:
All we know for sure is that he has a significantly better monitor than scotts has.
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If you read all of Scott's OP and some of his earlier posts on amplification, it will become apparent that, in his view, the monitors he now uses are substantially better than all the ones that have become popular with Axe-Fx users. And he has auditioned all of those speakers at some length. Whether you would agree with him on his observations is an open question. It is apparent to me, having met Scott, heard him play, and discussed what we were both hearing in detail, that he has a very well-developed ear for sonic differences. I am confident that, given the "opportunity" to audition all the monitors he has, he and I would be in agreement when it comes to ranking them.

I must have missed that post.
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I've only had to state that publicly a dozen or so times over the past four years.
 
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bladlus said:
Because the Axe-FX is what's defining the sound - with the amp, cab and effects. The power amp and speaker need to be fully neutral (FRFR) to be able to reproduce those sounds with perfection - how they're "supposed to sound". If the speaker isn't fully neutral, it will alter the sound. Like painting a picture on a blue background. It will look different than if you had painted it on a neutral, white background.
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Jay Mitchell said:
In this case, the Axe-Fx is the "guitar related" part of the equation. Assuming you are able to produce the sound you want from it - not a given by any means - then the amplification you need to use is not "guitar related amplification." If I had not been able to get my Axe-Fx to do exactly what I wanted on its own, with no external Band-Aids, I would not be an Axe-Fx owner.
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English is not my native language so I created a misunderstandig.

I meant "why people is searching for something designed for guitar, but searching for something neutral?".
In other words: why are we reading so many people talking about "I need a VHT PA because it's neutral", "can you suggest me a neutral guitar speaker" instead of "I need a reference amp", "can you suggest me a good FRFR combination".

I mean, you can use the Axe-Fx with whatever you want, for example on stage (not on FOH) I use a guitar cabinet because I don't trust every sound guy in the world, but I'm driving the cab with a SS studio designed amp. The Axe-Fx takes care of all the non linearities.


I hope it's clear now :)
 
Sorry if this question comes across as stupid (I have far from the experience most of you guys have)

If the FRFR system that I've got (I've got the Atomic and QSC K12) color the sound a bit, why would that be a problem? You still tweak the Axe-Fx to sound the way you want, and the coloring of the FRFR is taken into account as it is the system you use to get amplify the Axe-Fx.

Educate me, fellas!

Cheers!
- jonah
 
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