It's been an interesting run

toolfanem said:
If someone has a brain and can use it to think for themselves its not easy to get caught by the idea of a loadbox because researching the limitations of loadboxes is not difficult or even that time consuming.
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Yet most people do get lost.

I'll leave the part about honesty, dishonesty, antagonizing, value of contributions etc. unanswered, it's irrelevant to anything whatsoever.
 
The loadbox is not the sole reason a real amp feels and reacts 'better' or 'worse' than the AFX counterpart; it is only one part of the equation. There is a fundamental sound difference (amp modeling and/or preamp modeling) which is hard to hear for most people. If you REALLY critically listen to the upper mids and highs, you should hear the difference. Whether or not that makes much of a difference in the mix is up for debate.


I have and will continue to fool people with the axe so it is definitely VERY close… so close in fact that luddite friends have done a 180. However, there is something bouncier about the attack of a real amp and the recorded sound has a sort of depth to it that is harder to create with the AFX counterpart. I have a feeling its harmonics related. Some folks really enjoy that bounce when they are playing. I know I do. However, I also like the AFX feel and sound… but its different. I prefer one over the other depending on my mood. Neither is ‘better’, IMHO.


As far as why the OP posted this? Who cares? Its spawned some interesting debate and conversation.
 
As someone who has supported the inclusion of reactive load box technology to the AxeFx platform I want to point out that the sound of both methods are subjective as to which is better. I would suggest that neither is better, just different. Mikko seems to ignore that the over riding part of using a load box requires the best IRs you can find, one way he makes a living is by selling IRs, so in his own interest he should promote both. I want FAS to pickup load box technology because I believe FAS can take it the farthest, develop the technology to a higher level than other companies and provide a better product for someone who wants to continue to use tube amps. I have had a lot of push back by those who for what ever reason,"cost", "point less","engineering hurdles", don't want it. I realise that Cliff may not want to pursue this direction for valid reasons but a lot of tube amp users could benefit from FAS coming into this market, but it is a decision for FAS to make not forum members, If you don't like this idea say so, if you do say so. I like and use both methods and either way I will be getting more FAS gear as well as load boxes.
 
erockomania said:
If you REALLY critically listen to the upper mids and highs, you should hear the difference. Whether or not that makes much of a difference in the mix is up for debate.
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If you really critically listen to two tube amps of the same model coming from the same production run you'll also hear a difference. Whether you (or anyone else, for that matter) can actually reliably tell a modeler in a properly set up experiment, even without a mix, is up for debate as well.
 
vangrieg said:
If you really critically listen to two tube amps of the same model coming from the same production run you'll also hear a difference. Whether you (or anyone else, for that matter) can actually reliably tell a modeler in a properly set up experiment, even without a mix, is up for debate as well.
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of course, but there is an overriding theme in FAS models. A sonic imprint.
 
In the spirit of the OP...I've been toying with this idea too but man, it would be costly for that one sound! The math may be missing some items so rough apples-to-apples:

Fractal Setup
AxeFX 2 = $2250
MFC = $650
EV-1 Expression Pedal = $140
Atomic CLR = $1000
Rack Holder = $100

TOTAL for 200 amps and countless effects = $4140

Real Amp Set UP (what I'd do or my dream rig)
Marshall 1959SLP = $2699
Timmy Pedal = $135
Way Huge Green Rhino = $135
Strymon El Capistan = $300
Quality clean boost = $100
Pedaltrain Board = $120
Torpedo Live = $1000
Atomic CLR = $1000
(Optional) Marshall 1960x 4x12 Cabinet for big stages/outdoors = $1300

TOTAL = $6789

Even if I cut out the cab, that's $5400 and only one sound but man what a glorious sound...I'm thinking. I guess if you can piece it together over time or had some of the components, it's a different analysis but for me, I'd have to build the tube rig from the ground up so modeling tech is "good enough" and damn good enough at that. While I'd love to have my dream rig some day (and play the whole thing at volume on stage!), that's too much scratch to tie up in gear for a semi-pro/hobbyist.

FWIW, I'm currently having an affair with a Kemper :)
 
erockomania said:
of course, but there is an overriding theme in FAS models. A sonic imprint.
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Just to be clear, is this being stated as an opinion or fact?

Which ever it is, please provide us with "apples to apples" sound samples so it can be confirmed and get fixed in a future firmware update.
 
5150 said:
This isn't something I hear.
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Yeah - I'm struggling with the imprint comment as well. I'm not going to pretend my ears are that good, but I've heard that across-model 'imprint' with every other modeler I've owned - and it is why I returned many of them. I've referred to it as the brand's 'distortion characteristic'...Line 6, Digi, Boss's COSM, Blackstar. The Axe is the first one I've tried where I can't hear an imprint across models - and the first to actually have enough parameters to tweak to even change the characteristic within each model. To be fair, I haven't tried the Helix or Kemper.

RR
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
Just to be clear, is this being stated as an opinion or fact?

Which ever it is, please provide us with "apples to apples" sound samples so it can be confirmed and get fixed in a future firmware update.
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There are 6 million samples you can hear at any point you want. Go to the Music forum.

It's subtle, but it's there. It's mostly noticeable on the heavy stuff. I don't expect everyone will hear it or care. I have a friend who doesn't even have the axe and can tell me pretty much right away when I didn't use a real amp (I own a studio and record rock and metal bands all the time). He always says "it's a little scratchy at the attack". I will say this is somewhat circumvented when I rely on a real pedal to get some of the distortion character.
 
toolfanem said:
Wow, I am really surprised by your response Mikko. It bothers me that you right off his personal experience as an "agenda". Listen, I love my AFX2 and wouldn't use anything else at this point, but it makes me think that if I ever had a similar experience and wanted to share it I would be written off as having an "agenda".
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Agreed 100%.

I had the Bulb Zilla cab pack in my cart and ready to go until his responses to this thread hit. Just sayin'
 
mtmartin71 said:
TOTAL for 200 amps and countless effects = $4140
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How many of those amps do you use? Also, not all amps in the AFX are created equal. I remember seeing a fair bit of dissatisfaction about the ENGL models.Personally, I kinda think the Herbie model sucks compared to the real thing.

Real Amp Set UP (what I'd do or my dream rig)
Marshall 1959SLP = $2699
Timmy Pedal = $135
Way Huge Green Rhino = $135
Strymon El Capistan = $300
Quality clean boost = $100
Pedaltrain Board = $120
Torpedo Live = $1000
Atomic CLR = $1000
(Optional) Marshall 1960x 4x12 Cabinet for big stages/outdoors = $1300

TOTAL = $6789
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Why would you need the Atomic Monitor if you've got a Marshall Cab? Also, if you're paying more than 700 bucks for a Marshall Cab you're doing it wrong. Also, buying a pedaltrain board instead of grabbing a bit of wood from the hardware store is a bit ridiculous.

PS: Buy those pedals and run them into the AFX. Using the actual pedals is more fun and it sounds better.
 
benvigil said:
Agreed 100%.

I had the Bulb Zilla cab pack in my cart and ready to go until his responses to this thread hit. Just sayin'
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I already commented on this on the previous page. I didn't say that the OP has an agenda, rather I was disappointed that he wasn't on an agenda to try and solve the problem he's experiencing and help the community. This again brings me to where I'm now. If there infact is a problem it has to be confirmed. That's how a product evolves.
 
My recent experience has been the opposite of what the OP describes. We can debate who has the best ears and all that which can not once again be fact checked, so I'm offering a solution. Like I said I do the real vs Axe comparison almost every week. I pulled one that's IMO one of the closest ones that I've gotten yet. It has some extreme fine tuned tweaking (all inside the amp block) to try and match the impedance curve and I'll be the first to admit that one of these is a little bit brighter than the other but IMO there's no way of telling which one is real and which one is not. I think the punch and saturation and all that is there. I'm not going to state which one is which at least for now. So which of these clips has the "sonic imprint"?

 
ML SOUND LAB said:
My recent experience has been the opposite of what the OP describes. We can debate who has the best ears and all that which can not once again be fact checked, so I'm offering a solution. Like I said I do the real vs Axe comparison almost every week. I pulled one that's IMO one of the closest ones that I've gotten yet. It has some extreme fine tuned tweaking (all inside the amp block) to try and match the impedance curve and I'll be the first to admit that one of these is a little bit brighter than the other but IMO there's no way of telling which one is real and which one is not. I think the punch and saturation and all that is there. I'm not going to state which one is which at least for now. So which of these clips has the "sonic imprint"?

Click to expand...


I don't honestly hear any difference between the two samples.
 
Not saying that any of the two is better or worse, they are pretty close.

My guess would be that the first one is the Axe.
 
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