Direct to FOH

[strabes]

Speakers have a natural roll off, and you can't do High/low EQ cuts on a real guitar cab live, so why would you in the Axe?

I agree with you in principle and sometimes the drastic cuts people recommend are, let's say, not what I would do. Like you said, the frequency response of the real cabs, mic, mic placement, and mic pre are built into the IRs themselves. However there is a good reason to cut a little on your end: to clean up your IEM mix a bit if you're getting a pre-fx send from the monitor console. That is my preference for monitors because it drives me crazy when I can hear EQ tweaks that FOH or monitors might be doing on my signal. But I can still clean up the low end in my ears a bit by high passing at the cab block, especially if I'm mixing in a Royer 121 IR which delivers a lot of low end content. I do a very minor cut, usually 12dB/octave at 60 or 80hz, i.e. not enough where the change to the tone is audible in a band mix aside from the overall cleaned up low end. I also low pass around 12k, i.e. not affecting the core of the tone but getting rid of the fatiguing ultra high end hiss in my IEMs. On the preset level I'd never go above 100hz or below like 10k except to get a specific "effect" bandpass sound.

 

[Zedhed]

@FractalAudio, I’m confused with all of the opinions. What are your thoughts?

I don't think this is technical enough to warrant a reply from him....just guessing.

 

[boyce89976]

I agree with you in principle and sometimes the drastic cuts people recommend are, let's say, not what I would do. Like you said, the frequency response of the real cabs, mic, mic placement, and mic pre are built into the IRs themselves. However there is a good reason to cut a little on your end: to clean up your IEM mix a bit if you're getting a pre-fx send from the monitor console. That is my preference for monitors because it drives me crazy when I can hear EQ tweaks that FOH or monitors might be doing on my signal. But I can still clean up the low end in my ears a bit by high passing at the cab block, especially if I'm mixing in a Royer 121 IR which delivers a lot of low end content. I do a very minor cut, usually 12dB/octave at 60 or 80hz, i.e. not enough where the change to the tone is audible in a band mix aside from the overall cleaned up low end. I also low pass around 12k, i.e. not affecting the core of the tone but getting rid of the fatiguing ultra high end hiss in my IEMs. On the preset level I'd never go above 100hz or below like 10k except to get a specific "effect" bandpass sound.

Yeah, I think if you have some frequency congestion, it can be good.

 

[LiamH]

My experience has been a little different from many, in that I quite often look after FOH sound as well as playing guitar (with a pair of MF.10 for stage monitoring, RCF ART 732A Mk4 for FOH).

First time I stepped out front to hear what was coming out of a flat FOH amplifying a copy of my stage EQ after getting the MF.10s and RCFs I was pretty horrified. The bottom end was fine (I tend to low cut the cab block at about 90 - 100 Hz), but the top end was really harsh - horribly so. The PA was amplifying some frequencies that, a) I wouldn't have expected to be present in the IRs that I use (mainly Celestion in 4x12 cabs), and b) the MF.10s were rolling off enough that it hadn't concerned me.

I currently run the Axe FX output flat, and use a high cut from around 5.5 - 6.0 kHz in the FOH EQ. However when I next do a gig with an FOH PA/engineer that I don't know/trust, I'll probably stick a high cut on the Axe III FOH feed in case I forget to let the engineer know that my guitar sound might not be great without it. If it's someone I don't know, I'll fear that they think I want it to sound like that.

Wasn't an issue when using my old Peavey passive FOH speakers, but definitely woke me up to checking FOH sound carefully. RCFs are clearly better, but my guitar EQ needed a tweak when sent to them "direct" through the mixer.

Liam

 

[squealie]

Here's a dumb thing.

Our main, and super trusted sound guy...who I've been sending a AxeFx treated line-level stereo signal for years..

We show up at a soundcheck before a gig.

I had been updating, replacing presets and presented him with a set of sounds that he hadn't heard. My new patches were about more clarity and cut.

Before I came into the house to listen...just getting a level from stage... he says 'THIS HIGH END IS RIPPING!!!' and proceeds to make his adjustments.

I shrug and trust him to balance what he needs to. I play the whole show through my stereo 4x12s and have a blast with my Axe-2 tone.

The guys I know in the audience, who have always had big compliments on my Axe sound, arent really mentioning it. The guys I know who hate that I play 'Thru a box' are even less forgiving.

LSS (long story short)

I played the whole show with the global speaker sim off.

I had clicked that in rehearsal for some dumb reason.

I forgot to click it back on.

Sound guy, was so quick with his EQ that he 'fixed' the error...and screwed my whole presentation.

Live and learn. Always double check the PA with no EQ or junk on your signal.

 

[tysonlt]

I ditched the cabinets altogether and have a monitor feed sent to input 4 of the Axe. Just detailed the setup in an earlier post today under recordings, and it's awesome. I use an expression pedal to crossfade the volume of the AXE, using the control curves to create the behavior. The sound is awesome, and the great thing is with the crossfade I can hear the pure AXE tone with the "toe up," or straight monitor feed in "toe down" position. I use the Axe's headphone output - Plug the instrument into the front jack, the IEM/headphone extension cable into the headphone out, and tie the cables together with velcro. The cable plugs into the instrument and the headphone jack is secured to the guitar strap with velcro as well. With the two cables tied together, it feels natural - like I'm just walking around with an instrument cable, but I'm always in the "sweet spot" with a perfect mix. An expression pedal takes me from "just me" to "just monitor" mix. For performance I use a 25' guitar cable and 25' headphone extension cable, but rather than velcro I keep them together with some woven cable loom secured with heat shrink.

The IEMs weigh a lot less, and take up far less room in my trunk than a cabinet, and they're much easier on the lower back. When you get to be my age, you appreciate such things!

AXEFX III Live for BASS and IEM Mixing

View attachment 124040View attachment 124039

That’s a great idea with the exp pedal! I do almost the exact same thing with iems in the headphone jack and mix coming in from the desk.

 

[Sauro_on_guitar]

I cut highs at 11.000 that’s a “very high” cut…I do it cause it makes me sure I cut the very high harshness that I don like, then the FOH sound guy will do his job; mine is to play.

 

[666was999]

Here's a dumb thing.

Our main, and super trusted sound guy...who I've been sending a AxeFx treated line-level stereo signal for years..

We show up at a soundcheck before a gig.

I had been updating, replacing presets and presented him with a set of sounds that he hadn't heard. My new patches were about more clarity and cut.

Before I came into the house to listen...just getting a level from stage... he says 'THIS HIGH END IS RIPPING!!!' and proceeds to make his adjustments.

I shrug and trust him to balance what he needs to. I play the whole show through my stereo 4x12s and have a blast with my Axe-2 tone.

The guys I know in the audience, who have always had big compliments on my Axe sound, arent really mentioning it. The guys I know who hate that I play 'Thru a box' are even less forgiving.

LSS (long story short)

I played the whole show with the global speaker sim off.

I had clicked that in rehearsal for some dumb reason.

I forgot to click it back on.

Sound guy, was so quick with his EQ that he 'fixed' the error...and screwed my whole presentation.

Live and learn. Always double check the PA with no EQ or junk on your signal.

Now, that's the main reasons why I use monitors instead of cabs. With cabs you have no clue what you sound like down there in the audience.
Monitors display at least what you send to FOH. Still you don't know what they might mess up on their part, but that's something you can't do much about it.

 

[My name is mud]

Personally

I recently watched a Marco Fanton tutorial on YouTube about using FRFRs, as I’ve recently begun to go direct to FOH with my AxeFx.

I have been doing a low cut at 120 Hz and a high cut at 6500 Hz on the signal being sent to FOH. I’ve also been using a real cabinet on stage (but I’m considering an FRFR monitor on stage now.)

Do you just let the sound engineer perform the high and low cuts, or do you do it yourself? Marco was suggesting that we shouldn’t cut highs, but he did cut the lows.

What approach do you take?

100% in the FOH with cuts already done in the presets. With this no surprises. You just have your fingers crossed hoping that the place got a decent FOH and stage monitors.