Are you tired of FRFR?

An interesting update....

Grabbed the Axe FX II and spent the afternoon yesterday at GC. I hooked up to various PA speaker (more on that in a moment) and some 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 cabs. Really wasn't interested in the 4x12 but it was fun, wish I have more room in the studio. Using the Matrix GT1000FX and turning the cabs on and off, I got some pretty amazing sounds. I am NOT a metal guy, so all the crazy heavy gain stuff was not really what I was interested in. Moving air behind me was very sweet, but even at lower volume levels I felt the presence that I had been missing.

THEN, I went into the PA room and here is where it get interesting. I checked out the Yamaha DSR and DXR 12's, interesting bit not what I was looking for, sounded muddy . Then the guy showed me a Line 6 L3t, told him I wash't interested but he insisted I hook up teh AXe FX and just take a listen. This is a 30" high x 12" square column with 2 10" speakers. He placed it in PA/Monitor mode and we hooked up the AXE FX II. At 1400 watts this thing was LOUD, it sounded very full and real and was MOVING AIR! Then we hooked up both of the units they had and I was blown away, they sounded sweet, had presence and sounded better than any of the other PA speaker with the Axe. I have never really seen them discussed here, but they are interesting to say the least, just not sure they are what i am looking for.

So back to the main cab area and I played a Marshall 1960 4x12 something, sounded amazing. Then an Orange (it was so so), a Bogner 2x12 and a 1x12 but fell in love with the 2x12 which had G12H Celestion Anniversary speakers. I was getting rich deep and full tones that just felt right, had this mojo that I was getting before. I played a few others but ran out of time.

This was a great experience and well worth every minute.

I am leaving in 15 minutes to see my buddy. He is gigging tonight and invited to the sound check where they will be using the CLR's as monitors and cabs for a backline along with the FOH. It will be interesting to see how this stuff all sounds. Not sure I will get to connect my AxeFX but can use his.

More to follow.
Jake.
 
I can't believe that you said the "L" word............lol. But what the heck, if they sound good , then they sound good.
 
Update No. 2

So I just got done at the sound check. I am in a Starbucks having a no-fat latte and watching the talent. :)

Here's the story. The two CLR wedges Chris was using for his monitors are amazing. They are clear crisp and clean with amazing tonal range. I started off on the floor in front of the stage with the sound guy. The sound guy was a cool guy and offered to turn off the FOH and fade between different sets of speakers so I could hear a bunch of combos. After the sound check, I got 15 or 20 minutes to play with Chris's rig.

Bottom line, the CLR's are very similar to my FRFR monitors but it was the combo of his cab and CLR's that finally gave me the sound and feel I was looking for. Between today and yesterday I think that my solution is going to be one or two CLR wedges, a power amp and a 2x12 cab. The combo of the two was emotionally satisfying and gave me the presence, feel and responsiveness I was lacking...

One of the other guitarists was using a KPA. I hadn't head one, but it was very nice. The tones, sounds, and effects sounded REALLY good. I can see both being used and complimenting each other. But that is a storyline for another day and time.

Now I want to begin to audition cabs. May want to check some Port City Wave cabs if I can find any.
For the first time in weeks, I am honestly stoked and looking forward to this hybrid solution. I still need to check the GT1000FX PA vs a tube amp like the Fryette 2/50/2.

Thanks all for the great discussion, Will post images once I get this rig a going and a bit more solidified.
As for the L-Word, I think there is definitely something special and valuable there for the right application.

(EDIT)

I almost forgot, one of the Guitarists was playing with two Matrix Q12a cabs on the floor as monitors. We got a chance to compare them to the Atomic CLR's. Standing in front of the stage area they sounded identical to the CLR's, standing on stage using then as monitors the CLR's seemed to have more low end, to my ear anyway. The sound guy said that usually they have to EQ a bit of the low end depending on the patch being used. However, from my point of view, they were both the best FRFR monitors I had heard over the past two days. I could easily purchase either and feel good about my choice.

Regards,
Jake
 
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Uncle Feng said:
Update No. 2

So I just got done at the sound check. I am in a Starbucks having a no-fat latte and watching the talent. :)

Here's the story. The two CLR wedges Chris was using for his monitors are amazing. They are clear crisp and clean with amazing tonal range. I started off on the floor in front of the stage with the sound guy. The sound guy was a cool guy and offered to turn off the FOH and fade between different sets of speakers so I could hear a bunch of combos. After the sound check, I got 15 or 20 minutes to play with Chris's rig.

Bottom line, the CLR's are very similar to my FRFR monitors but it was the combo of his cab and CLR's that finally gave me the sound and feel I was looking for. Between today and yesterday I think that my solution is going to be one or two CLR wedges, a power amp and a 2x12 cab. The combo of the two was emotionally satisfying and gave me the presence, feel and responsiveness I was lacking...

One of the other guitarists was using a KPA. I hadn't head one, but it was very nice. The tones, sounds, and effects sounded REALLY good. I can see both being used and complimenting each other. But that is a storyline for another day and time.

Now I want to begin to audition cabs. May want to check some Port City Wave cabs if I can find any.
For the first time in weeks, I am honestly stoked and looking forward to this hybrid solution. I still need to check the GT1000FX PA vs a tube amp like the Fryette 2/50/2.

Thanks all for the great discussion, Will post images once I get this rig a going and a bit more solidified.
As for the L-Word, I think there is definitely something special and valuable there for the right application.

Regards,
Jake
Click to expand...
Cool! I run my rokit 8's up pretty loud once in a while in stereo with mt Avatar 2X12 and it sounds killer.
I'm not gigging right now, but if I was I would pretty much do the same thing, run my 2X12 behind me and an FRFR wedge in front of me.
they sound great running together. (I prefer a tube power amp ) but besides that.....................................
 
I use a Matrix GT800fx power amp to power an Atomic CLR out of one channel and a guitar cabinet out of the other. I roll up the volume of the guitar cabinet just enough to get that 'amp in the room feel'. With that line up, I feel like I have the best of all possible worlds.
 
tone pilgrim said:
I use a Matrix GT800fx power amp to power an Atomic CLR out of one channel and a guitar cabinet out of the other. I roll up the volume of the guitar cabinet just enough to get that 'amp in the room feel'. With that line up, I feel like I have the best of all possible worlds.
Click to expand...

And that you do tone pilgrim. My journey this week has shown me that a combination of the traditional cabinet and FRFR speaker/cab provides a tradition "amp-like" feel, and amazing tonal range/clarity of the frfr. For me, one without the other in combination with the Axe FX II is just not complete, it is missing something and that is why my initial post asked the question.

I have tired of the FRFR only solution. Now I feel like a kid in a candy store. Excited to assemble the new rig and once again feel one with my music. I want to thank everyone who has participated in this most enlightening discussion in a highly professional and upbeat manner.

Have a great weekend.
Jake
 
Personally, with the demand for "in the room" feel and dynamics, I am certain the emphasis will be on Far Field IRs for the coming months. It's only a matter of time before this direction is taken, as, hell, pretty well every other direction already has been taken and quite well satisfied IMHO.
 
kmanick said:
t.....I'm not gigging right now, but if I was I would pretty much do the same thing, run my 2X12 behind me and an FRFR wedge in front of me.
they sound great running together./QUOTE]

So today, Chris and I went over to GC. We wanted to check a few 2x12 cabs out in more detail with the Axe FX II. Chris brought the CFR, generated a bunch of interest from all the 16 year old shredders. :)

Anyway, after a couple of hours we took a Bogner Alchemist 212 used it as a backline and put the Atomic CLR wedge in front. Whoo hoo what a sound, I almost lost it right there. We drew a crowd. Now it helps that Chris is an amazingly talented studio and touring musician, but the kids didn't know that. Then the sales dude brought out the Line 6 L3T or L3M I can't remember but laid it at my feet and we hooked it up the Axe FX II. I almost soiled my shorts! The L3(x) sounded like it was twice the size of the CLR, has something like a 100 degree vertical and 50 degree horiz dispersion pattern. Laying on the floor as a monitor with the Bogner behind I was shocked at how this rig sounded.

We then placed a second L3t behind us (two in total spread a few feet apart)disconnecting the Bogner and the Matrix Amp. We now had 2 L3t's in the rear and the CLR on the floor in front. Guys, when I tell you the sound was amazing, I can't emphasis the amazing part enough. The L3t was moving air, but had a dispersion pattern that blew the Bogner away. All of a sudden the Bogner sounder narrow, nasal and condensed. We then turned Cabs on in the Axe FX II and I fell on the floor!

Chris and I looked at each other, had this sly look when all of a sudden he whipped out his credit card and bought two on the spot. I said, Dude, you have the CLR's, he said he wants to use them as a back line with the two CLRs as monitors. I looked at him with a jealous and somewhat disgusted expression and asked if I could have his two 4x12 cabs....

Anyway, we loaded the two boxes (that was all this store had in stock anyway) into the truck and we went for a pizza.
It has been one hell of a weekend. I am not sure I am any further down the road from where I started, but I do know that I will get two CLR's on order as a start. I will worry about the back line once they arrive. I also think I will definitely get the active version, just for the flexibility if nothing else.

Jake.
Click to expand...
 
Ha - nice story and update! :encouragement:

In a strange way, I'm kinda pleased that I haven't used a guitar cab in 17 years now... it means I don't have to think, or worry, about what I might be missing! :lol
 
Quick answer: Negative, Ghost Rider. Pattern still full... Translation: I am still happy, not tired of my FRFR.

The reason this applies is more where I do what I do than likely anything else. Every now and then I get a chance to let the Axe Fx air out its lungs... play really loud. But most times, that's simply not the best route to a good band sound or popularity with the persons paying the bills. I simply cannot get a good sound at those lower volumes without the polish a good FRFR solution gives you. The FRFR gives the full range of sound without being pushed to that sweet spot needed by regular speaker rigs, IMO.

If you can let it rage, then options abound. For me, having to play from fairly small indoor venues to large outdoor festivals and concerts, the FRFR has been the only thing that can cover it all. I'm staying put.
 
Uncle Feng said:
I'm not gigging right now, but if I was I would pretty much do the same thing, run my 2X12 behind me and an FRFR wedge in front of me.
they sound great running together./QUOTE]

So today, Chris and I went over to GC. We wanted to check a few 2x12 cabs out in more detail with the Axe FX II. Chris brought the CFR, generated a bunch of interest from all the 16 year old shredders. :)

Anyway, after a couple of hours we took a Bogner Alchemist 212 used it as a backline and put the Atomic CLR wedge in front. Whoo hoo what a sound, I almost lost it right there. We drew a crowd. Now it helps that Chris is an amazingly talented studio and touring musician, but the kids didn't know that. Then the sales dude brought out the Line 6 L3T or L3M I can't remember but laid it at my feet and we hooked it up the Axe FX II. I almost soiled my shorts! The L3(x) sounded like it was twice the size of the CLR, has something like a 100 degree vertical and 50 degree horiz dispersion pattern. Laying on the floor as a monitor with the Bogner behind I was shocked at how this rig sounded.

We then placed a second L3t behind us (two in total spread a few feet apart)disconnecting the Bogner and the Matrix Amp. We now had 2 L3t's in the rear and the CLR on the floor in front. Guys, when I tell you the sound was amazing, I can't emphasis the amazing part enough. The L3t was moving air, but had a dispersion pattern that blew the Bogner away. All of a sudden the Bogner sounder narrow, nasal and condensed. We then turned Cabs on in the Axe FX II and I fell on the floor!

Chris and I looked at each other, had this sly look when all of a sudden he whipped out his credit card and bought two on the spot. I said, Dude, you have the CLR's, he said he wants to use them as a back line with the two CLRs as monitors. I looked at him with a jealous and somewhat disgusted expression and asked if I could have his two 4x12 cabs....

Anyway, we loaded the two boxes (that was all this store had in stock anyway) into the truck and we went for a pizza.
It has been one hell of a weekend. I am not sure I am any further down the road from where I started, but I do know that I will get two CLR's on order as a start. I will worry about the back line once they arrive. I also think I will definitely get the active version, just for the flexibility if nothing else.

Jake.
Click to expand...

this seriously reminds me the the 'dome' I made with 4 Matrix RCF12's
I had a pair in stereo behind me and a pair in stereo in front of me
all powered by a GT1000FX

totally blew me away..

btw - I've tried and really enjoyed several FRFR solutions..
I'm not so keen on a single 1x12 monitor, but when you get a pair running in stereo things start perking up nicely..
a rear and front pair together though really is a big deal..

currently I still use a GT1000FX with a pair of 1960b 4x12 cabs.. which I adore..

have you considered a GT1500FX so you can run something like a WDW, or Lft Cntr Rght solution
with a pair of FRFR monitors in front and a conventional 2x12 behind you in mono
 
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clarky said:
have you considered a GT1500FX so you can run something like a WDW, or Lft Cntr Rght solution
with a pair of FRFR monitors in front and a conventional 2x12 behind you in mono
Click to expand...

Clarky, bro' why did you have to go there?
That shit is enough to give me serious OCD nightmares. :)

Yes, that is the direction I fear I am heading.....my wife is gonna have a cow!
You only live once.
 
When the planets are perfectly aligned, I just cant beat having my 4x12 marshall cabs smashing me in the chest like Mike Tyson, it is a feeling you just cant get anywhere else when you have that riff or chord at that moment, with the crowd just bouncing with every beat like something locked in time, Priceless! but....... now that im older and deafer I realise that I only had one sound, the reason I went with the Axe Fx and FRFR is for flavour, I can play any song I want now and it will sound exactly how I want it to. Is it my sound? no, but my sound after 25years of playing on stage is stale and boring. FRFR is the spice of life imo
 
Uncle Feng said:
Clarky, bro' why did you have to go there?
That shit is enough to give me serious OCD nightmares. :)

Yes, that is the direction I fear I am heading.....my wife is gonna have a cow!
You only live once.
Click to expand...

alternatively... lmao...

a pair of Matrix 2x12 FRFR cabs [when they finally launch] to the rear and a pair of CFR12 monitors to the front..
the GT1000FX should be able to power it all..

now that'll move some air....
combined I reckon it'll weigh less [and consume less space in the car] than a pair of 1960 cabs
but....
the CFR's will give you the pretty monitoring up into your face...
and the 2x12's will make your pants flap in the breeze...

best of both worlds... best of all maybe????
 
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