5150 Presence Knob

Do You Want the 5150 Presence Control to be Authentic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 36.6%

  • No

    Votes: 277 63.4%
  • Total voters
    437
DJD100 said:
Sorry, this is just BS James, as many say they haven't played this specific tube amp (myself included, as I'm not a super big gain guy), not that they haven't played tube amps in general.

In case you haven't noticed, "IDEALIZED" is winning big for this specific parameter on this specific amp model, as even the OEM rectified their pot taper mistake in their later models.
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The Toobians have spoken!
 
FractalAudio said:
Most models use authentic presence controls.

With an amp like the JVM it's very easy to saturate the virtual power amp. The real amp has two masters, a channel master and a global master. So the level in to the power amp is the product of those two masters. The model only has one so if you set the MV the same as the channel master and the global master isn't at 10 then you'll be overdriving the model's power amp much more than the amp. Just lowering the MV a touch will make the amp brighter for a given Presence value.
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Same thing probably applies to the Rectifier model of which the real amp has THREE volume controls before it hits PI.
Channel Master, Send Level, Output Level.
Personally I try not to hit 0.0 on Headroom and keep things cleaner, that's usually below 2 on Master Volume on most amp models.
 
Honoring the original hardware as much as possible yet improving on a particular design is the power of software modeling.

I use a bunch of synthesizer plugins that are faithful to the look, feel, and sounds of the originals they are modeled after. But the developers in almost all cases remove some limitations of the originals and users are delighted with those changes. Maybe a synth was only 8 voices but they made it 64, added aftertouch that wasn't available on the original and remove liabilities like tuning stability or excessive noise.

Edit: grammar
 
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I can vaguely remember all the forum threads like 10 years ago when I was like 16 years old. This sure takes me back.

There was always threads on 6505+ vs 6505 (or 5150/5150ii)

I remember a lot of the time reading comments something like, they got the 6505 they purchased, whichever model, and they say something like I have the amp, the cab (a mesa 4x12 most likely) and the boost (maxon were super popular back then) but they aren't getting the sound they hear on X record.

I think a big thing with the 6505 series is this kind of phenomenon, you get a 5150ii/6505+, it sounds great but it doesn't sound exactly like what they were expecting.

I was totally into the 6505 style amps and what I ended up with was one of those Bugera heads. An interesting thing though is the Bugera heads were meant to be replica/clones, but the 6260 model I got which is the 6505/5150 replica. I'm 99% sure they went with a "better" presence taper. (and people obviously prefer Peavey's to the Bugeras) Food for thought I guess. Tbh I remember cranking the presence knob on that Bugera when the whole djent thing become popular and sitting there "djenting" (nonstop aggressive palm muting) it was fun.

So I guess my vote is for authentic but if we can have an idealized model as well that would be nice.

I think a lot of us want to see and end to the phenomenon of new users pulling up X amp model that has been idealized and not understanding their placement of the virtual knobs in these cases shouldn't be exact 1:1 to the real amps. I wouldn't be surprised if the idealization has caused certain people to choose other modelers over the Axe, like a Kemper, I can imagine a person AB'ing a 6505 Axe model with the knobs placed exactly where they have it on the real amp, vs a kemper profile and it being the kemper that sounds closer to them.
 
For me presence is something I tweak towards the end of the dialling in process and it really is a case of using my ears. I find myself fairly sensitive to most amps presence so having it ramp up in a more linear fashion makes sense to me. However it's modelled is fine but I have a slight preference for ideal.
 
Tell me to stfu but could you have it display as the real setting in the main amp page and the ideal in the ideal page?

I know..... We've all had a beer.....
 
I voted "authentic" because I always thought that the FAS 6160 "corrected" the quirks of the 5150 circuit and that 5150 model(s) were "authentic", warts and all. This is what the FAS models are meant to do, right? Make more "sensible" amps without the limitations or mistakes of the real-world amps (which is why I LOVE the FAS models, btw)? I think when we already have a completely different amp model that is meant to "idealise" the amp , why not separate the domains altogether?
 
I have more experience with reals amps than most, but it’s still just my opinion and preference. I own quite a few, and I’ve built many. I repair and do mods for my friends. I voted for the improved scheme for Presence.

People that love their amps tend to make improvements, to circumvent known deficiencies. Over 50 years (I started young), I’ve never known anyone that plays Peaveys or EVH amps, so I was not aware of this shortcoming in the 100W circuit of these amps.

Btw, a lot of us that mod/repair/clone are hesitant to touch these amps. They are constructed more like computers. Not trying to be offensive or snobby. We just recommend people take them to somebody else.

The 1980’s tends to be a cutoff for large OEM amp builders, regarding amps that are fun to mod.
 
OrganicZed said:
Question: Would it be possible to have the control on the tone tab reflect the original amp control taper and then the ideal tab control have the idealized taper?
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IMO this would be bad UI design and confusing for users because the knob position (value) would change between the two tabs. Only if they had clearly different labels might it work, but I imagine many users would still be confused about what is the "correct" presence knob to use and why they are different etc.
 
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