5150 Presence Knob

Do You Want the 5150 Presence Control to be Authentic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 36.6%

  • No

    Votes: 277 63.4%
  • Total voters
    437
Some well put thoughts on this. I considered changing my vote to authentic but decided to stick with idealized. I’ve never owned a Marshall but have worked on some and built a couple versions. As with all amps, I plug in and adjust knobs until I’m happy. Having a better adjustment on the presence makes more sense to me. I don’t care if it doesn’t match the real deal. The correct taper makes it easier to dial in fine adjustments. I respect all opinions but unless Cliff changes his mind the vote appears that the taper will be the reverse log. Either way is fine with me. You can still get there with the authentic linear pot.
 
A little bit offtop question but about 5150III and authentic, sorry.

To get 5150 Stealth EL34 model is it enough to switch the tube type only or need to tweak some other knobs?
 
Fandorin said:
A little bit offtop question but about 5150III and authentic, sorry.

To get 5150 Stealth EL34 model is it enough to switch the tube type only or need to tweak some other knobs?
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I think IIRC correctly when you change power tubes a couple of other things change , the HF and LF in the speaker tab in the amp block have to be reduced by 1.0 or so , 6l6s have more bass and treble so you can reduce those for the EL34s


here is from the tech notes


You can simulate changing power tubes in the Axe-Fx by simply increasing or decreasing the LF and HF resonance values.
 
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yek said:
Too much work for FAS and it would mess with sharing presets.
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Would it, though? You don't necessarily have to change the amp model to implement this. It's just a basic math operation on the underlying value to change the way it's displayed to the user.

For example, let's say the model is coded for ideal behavior, mapped to the revised pot taper. If you flip an ideal switch, the underlying model could stay exactly the same, and it just applies a simple math function to the value displayed by the knob to virtually re-map it to authentic values.
 
yek said:
Adding a preference switch to every debatable parameter doesn’t make things better, IMO
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That's why a global setting would be great. Turn it on, and all of the models where Cliff thought ideal tapers make sense use those. Switch it off, and it uses the tapers from the schematic.

This digitally archives the original amp designs in the Axe-FX, but also makes it more convenient for the user if they like idealization. And as for implementation, just code all of the models with the schematic values, and apply a simple math transform to the displayed values if the "ideal" switch is flipped.
 
SwirlyMaple said:
Would it, though? You don't necessarily have to change the amp model to implement this. It's just a basic math operation on the underlying value to change the way it's displayed to the user.

For example, let's say the model is coded for ideal behavior, mapped to the revised pot taper. If you flip an ideal switch, the underlying model could stay exactly the same, and it just applies a simple math function to the value displayed by the knob to virtually re-map it to authentic values.
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Users wouldn't be able to compare and recommend settings anymore.

A: "Try Presence at 4 o'clock!"

B: "Errr, yes, but is that Presence in Authentic or Idealized mode?"
 
SwirlyMaple said:
That's part of the problem, though. Unless I'm wrong (could be!), my read of this forum indicates we already have some amps with idealized pots and some without.
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As I recall, Cliff himself said he changed a few that inspired enough annoyance for him to bother with it....
 
Greg Ferguson said:
I think authentic is the easiest to explain and defend.
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Going with the authentic approach … But wouldn’t having access to advanced parameter values in everything (amp & effects included) kind of defeats the whole ‘authentic’ defense? Users of the real amp don’t have these options UNLESS they physically modify it.

Idealizing the presence control on an amp is a mod… yet, we love the idea (mostly) of having these idealized options… on everything… except the presence knob on the EVH 😄.. after all, just look at the amount of comments on this one thing.

My guess would be that Cliff measured the value of the taper, and its range is modeled. But idealized its value would be set lower than the original because the real amp has a crappy taper that does nothing 3/4 of its range.
But, the purists want that… as long as they still have all these other idealized parameters available to play with, that the owner of the real amp doesn’t have… unless they mod it.

God forbid we electric guitarists should turn knobs and find our own sound, instead of seeking instant gratification by having it done for us.

I’d like to think (not knowing sh!t about IT, nor someone that has owed or played the amp in real life) that Cliff could easily default the presence control on the amp to its sweet spot when selecting it… whatever that is .. 7.5 to 9 ?
 
I voted no because it just made sense to me to have a more usable range of any given parameter and I'm not a purist by any stretch. And I can 100% see the argument the other way around as well.

@FractalAudio - would it be a major hassle adding both? I.e. leave the named model as authentic to the amp and keep/add idealised versions FAS 5153 Blue, FAS 5153 Red, FAS 5153 Green, ... That way those that wish for authenticity can select that model and we who wish to use idealised version would use the FAS versions of those amps.
 
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Johan Allard said:
I voted no because it just made sense to me to have a more usable range of any given parameter and I'm not a purist by any stretch. And I can 100% see the argument the other way around as well.

@FractalAudio - would it be a major hassle adding both? I.e. leave the named model as authentic to the amp and keep/add idealised versions FAS 5153 Blue, FAS 5153 Red, FAS 5153 Green, ... That way those that wish for authenticity can select that model and we who wish to use idealised version would use the FAS versions of those amps.
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I don't know that seems like a lot of extra models just for the pres dial , I would think if possible just having the option on a switch like the Saturation , for models that require it might be a whole lot easier
 
Maybe we could have 1 global "linear/ideal/auth" option to affect all knobs + have dual differently colored lighted concentric rings surrounding each and every knob displaying, as a given knob is turned, the progress of the tapers not selected in the global setting.

(woh doods!, barely cracked open an Old Vienna, and already the ideas are flowing!)
 
When factory pop up notes eventually gets implemented in AxeEdit …all this will be for naught?

After reading the replies …..I see the side for authentic…though i’m more for function and ease of use.

Yet…the AxeFx is not for the “faint of heart” …

Most of us serious players do our research and read the tips and helpful sections of the manual and wiki…and scan the forum …

3 - 5 main amps maybe at most we will use live.

Is it all that difficult and a hassle to rtfm and read the helps to familiarize ourselves for the few main amps we cherish and desire to use live & for recording?

Not to mention this incredible forum with mods, FAS and others at a moments notice eager and ready to help!

However FAS decides 👍🏻
 
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