Upgrade from EZD to Superior Drummer??

[GlennO]

If you have Cubase, you will probably never use the sequence editor in SD3.

SDX's come with great sounding presets, so you can use those.

 

[Admin M@]

If you have Cubase, you will probably never use the sequence editor in SD3.

Agreed. They allow you to drag and drop pattens into your DAW so the MIDI editor there will probably be more familiar to you.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Looking at this thread again as I've just picked up an external SSD drive and could house the large content library of SD3. I get the differences of the two and what their strengths are but can anyone comment on say the midi editor within SD3 vs the Drum editor in Cubase. Cubase' drum editor is very capable and wondering if there's a big difference with SD3's. Specific I guess to any Cubase users.

Secondly, what I'm wondering is that SD3 has the larger unprocessed samples for greater control. Will I have to do a lot of tweaking to get great sound/mix or right out of the box ; or are they sounding as good as EZ2 to start and the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want?

There’s PLENTY of presets/kits that are already EQ’d and sound great as-is, you’ll only have to tweak for specific things you’re looking for. I actually upgraded because of the fact that I could get the raw samples because I wasn’t a fan of how far I could go with EZD, then once I upgraded, found that they sounded so good I was barely doing any tweaking at all.

For the most part, outside of small EQ adjustments I do within SD3, I always route the whole kit to an aux bus for parallel compression, then I’ll route just the snare to an aux bus so I can automate reverbs because I tweak the mix of the reverb depending on the section of the song. Can’t have that huge reverb over blast beats!

Edit- I also never use the sequence editor in SD3. Since I write 90% of my drum tracks out myself, I just do everything in Logic’s piano roll. For the days I’m being lazy and want to snag a fill from a MIDI file, I just drag it from the Grooves section in SD3 right into Logic and Bob’s your uncle.

 

[Chewie5150]

Thanks everyone, I think you've nudged me into getting the crossgrade!

For the most part, outside of small EQ adjustments I do within SD3, I always route the whole kit to an aux bus for parallel compression, then I’ll route just the snare to an aux bus so I can automate reverbs because I tweak the mix of the reverb depending on the section of the song. Can’t have that huge reverb over blast beats!

So, for the most part using the mixer within SD3 and then as you mention Aux Channel for parallel compression Reverb send etc? With EZ drummer I've usually enabled multi out to show each kit piece in Cubase mixer but sounds like SD3 has a lot of built in presets/plugins for each channel within its own mixer making it more 'in the box' work flow. Cool. Lots of flexibility here and I'm sure i'll have to experiment with work flow

 

[RevDrucifer]

Thanks everyone, I think you've nudged me into getting the crossgrade!

So, for the most part using the mixer within SD3 and then as you mention Aux Channel for parallel compression Reverb send etc? With EZ drummer I've usually enabled multi out to show each kit piece in Cubase mixer but sounds like SD3 has a lot of built in presets/plugins for each channel within its own mixer making it more 'in the box' work flow. Cool. Lots of flexibility here and I'm sure i'll have to experiment with work flow

Between the sounds of the kits themselves and the onboard mixer there’s plenty of versatility! You can also use older SDX’s with it and mix/match kit pieces. I was initially hesitant of the cross grade because of the price, but I had a little bitch fit one day because I couldn’t get a kit in EZD sounding how I wanted it to so I totally made an impulse/rage purchase. But it was one of the better things I’ve bought as far as studio stuff goes.

 

[Chewie5150]

@RevDrucifer impulse/rage purchase! Been there myself once or twice. It's like the Furyian in me adds to cart but the Necromonger in me has also added to cart. It gets confusing at times who's driving the purchase...

 

[MisterE]

I was thinking the same thing as RevDrucifer.
I wasn't getting quite the sound I wanted with EZD.
Also, although I used the original kits to get the most mixing options, it depended on which kit I was using.
Not all kits give you full control.
Not so with SD.
You have everything at your fingertips and more.
Not that you'll have to do that much but it's there with effects and all.
And I found SD sounds better than in EZD even without tweaking.

I'm using Reaper so I have no clue about the midi editor in other DAWs.
I prefer to use the midi editor in Reaper.
I also like to use MIDI packs as I think they have a more human feel than the patterns I program myself.
But if find a pattern and want to change for example from ride another cymbal, I use the SD editor to change the "power hand".
Then I drag it bag to the Reaper editor.

All in all, I'm very happy with the upgrade to SD3.

 

[RevDrucifer]

I was thinking the same thing as RevDrucifer.
I wasn't getting quite the sound I wanted with EZD.
Also, although I used the original kits to get the most mixing options, it depended on which kit I was using.
Not all kits give you full control.
Not so with SD.
You have everything at your fingertips and more.
Not that you'll have to do that much but it's there with effects and all.
And I found SD sounds better than in EZD even without tweaking.

I'm using Reaper so I have no clue about the midi editor in other DAWs.
I prefer to use the midi editor in Reaper.
I also like to use MIDI packs as I think they have a more human feel than the patterns I program myself.
But if find a pattern and want to change for example from ride another cymbal, I use the SD editor to change the "power hand".
Then I drag it bag to the Reaper editor.

All in all, I'm very happy with the upgrade to SD3.

The MIDI files having a more human-feel is most likely due to the velocities. I suggest anyone unfamiliar with programming drums buys at least one good MIDI pack that was performed by an actual drummer so the files can be viewed in an educational sense. The biggest gripe about drum VST’s is that they don’t sound human enough and it’s due to many users using one velocity on every single hit…..especially the djent crowd putting everything at 127.

If you look at the supplied MIDI’s in an piano roll, you can see how much the velocities vary, putting some dynamics in there. Just like us guitar players won’t hit every note with the exact same pick attack for every note, it’s the same thing with drums. It’s why it takes me about 5 straight days of editing drum MIDI’s to get them where I want them; writing them doesn’t take me long but adjusting the velocities takes me forever. Thankfully, Logic has a Randomize Velocity function, so I’ll highlight a whole line of kick drums and then randomize it between 116 and 123 (depending on the song) and then just make sure none of the ‘weaker’ velocities falls at the start of a new section, which is where a drummer will normally hit something a little harder. Then I’ll do it for all the drums I’m hitting repeatedly; fills/toms I’ll adjust individually.

If you program a kick drum at 127, it’s burying the beater into the head, meaning it‘s hitting the head and not moving away from the head after, not allowing the head/drum to resonate. It gives you all the attack but none of the body, that goes for all the drums. Snares are the only thing I’ll actually hit 127 with but that’s only when I want to accent something.

 

[Dave Merrill]

The MIDI files having a more human-feel is most likely due to the velocities. I suggest anyone unfamiliar with programming drums buys at least one good MIDI pack that was performed by an actual drummer so the files can be viewed in an educational sense. The biggest gripe about drum VST’s is that they don’t sound human enough and it’s due to many users using one velocity on every single hit…..especially the djent crowd putting everything at 127.

If you look at the supplied MIDI’s in an piano roll, you can see how much the velocities vary, putting some dynamics in there. Just like us guitar players won’t hit every note with the exact same pick attack for every note, it’s the same thing with drums. It’s why it takes me about 5 straight days of editing drum MIDI’s to get them where I want them; writing them doesn’t take me long but adjusting the velocities takes me forever. Thankfully, Logic has a Randomize Velocity function, so I’ll highlight a whole line of kick drums and then randomize it between 116 and 123 (depending on the song) and then just make sure none of the ‘weaker’ velocities falls at the start of a new section, which is where a drummer will normally hit something a little harder. Then I’ll do it for all the drums I’m hitting repeatedly; fills/toms I’ll adjust individually.

If you program a kick drum at 127, it’s burying the beater into the head, meaning it‘s hitting the head and not moving away from the head after, not allowing the head/drum to resonate. It gives you all the attack but none of the body, that goes for all the drums. Snares are the only thing I’ll actually hit 127 with but that’s only when I want to accent something.

^^^ this, but the same applies to tiny variations in timing. That stuff is intuitive to a drummer, less so to note grid editor.

 

[RevDrucifer]

^^^ this, but the same applies to tiny variations in timing. That stuff is intuitive to a drummer, less so to note grid editor.

Yep, I’ll drag stuff off the grid, especially fills, to replicate that. Whe ever I’ve tracked drums with a drummer and he’s playing to a click, I’d give some allowance in the fills to speed things up or drag them, but generally want them coming down on the downbeat in time unless a whole band is tracking together at the same time. The sessions I’ve done where the drummer didn’t use a click…..man, we’d all basically have to ‘learn’ the song over again in the studio when tracking our parts individually because everyone is anticipating coming down on a downbeat but if it‘s off a little bit everyone would get hung up on that one part trying to nail it right.

It’s hard to find the right combination of it where it sounds like a real drummer but doesn‘t jack up the timing of the song. A lot of the fills in the MIDI packs you’ll find the fills are often already off the grid.

 

[MisterE]

The MIDI files having a more human-feel is most likely due to the velocities

True, and also the timing.
But I also like the little variations in thr rhythms.
I sometimes program something, drag it into the tap&find and then work with something that's a close match but offers something different, something I might never have thought of.
But as I'm continuing to work with it, I kinda feel I'm getting better at programming drums.
Another thing I realy do like is the fills. Those are some things I could never come up with.

 

[RevDrucifer]

True, and also the timing.
But I also like the little variations in thr rhythms.
I sometimes program something, drag it into the tap&find and then work with something that's a close match but offers something different, something I might never have thought of.
But as I'm continuing to work with it, I kinda feel I'm getting better at programming drums.
Another thing I realy do like is the fills. Those are some things I could never come up with.

Yeah, fills are like leads/riffs for guitarists; everyone does them differently and it’s where you can add in your personality. Makes me glad I used to watch drum instructional videos for entertainment when I was in high school. My guitar obsession quickly turned to a drum obsession, mostly because listening to Dream Theater when I was 15, it was the first band that made me WANT to pay attention to what the other instruments were doing. Having a ridiculously great drummer for a best friend back then made things easier because we’d hang out at his dad’s music store and he’d teach me anything I wanted to learn. Learning a few rudiments goes a long way, once I learned a few and realized how they’re applied to grooves/fills it was like unlocking the door to drum freedom.

 

[GitGuy513]

I’m presently on a quest to decide what drum software to invest. I have Addictive Drums 2 with the Studio Rock kit that came bundled with my Audio Interface. I was going to invest more into that with groove packs, etc., but then came across Get Good Drums and was doing a bunch of research on that and watching YT stuff.

Anyway, here’s two videos I found interesting in regards to making midi drums sound real. Periphery isn’t exactly my thing, but Misha Mansoor is one talented dude. He gives some good pointers in these short tutorials. They may be useful to someone. I like the part about paying attention how many limbs would be needed for some stuff we tend to come up with when first learning.

 

[seclusion]

Sii SD3 here, custom and vintage add on I go back to often. I play a TD9 kit to trigger, fix in Logic. I just always play the feel right, quicker then sorting through midi files. The mixes are very nice, often I may just tweak a snare or kick. I have Decades and Rooms of Hanna also very nice. Need lots of HD space as sales go on. I used Ez drummer way back, I don’t remember what the differences are.

 

[WbbS]

EZ Drummer 3?