Trying to get the hang of that Marshall sound

G

golfnut

Inspired
Working with the FM9T for almost 2 weeks now. I've really got the blackface amps sounding fantastic (Twin, deluxe, bandmaster) As well I'm loving my Vox AC30 sound. It was pretty easy to get them where I wanted. Its what I have the most experience and know that they should sound like
However I'd love to get a great Marshall sound. It was only a little over a year ago I started to get the itch for that sound for modern country\classic rock. I bought a Fargen DBC 50, which the 2nd channel was plexi with a switch for JCM800. Now probably its Fargen's take on the Marshall sound but it was close enough to the classic rock tones of the 70's that I was familiar listening to.
I've played with many of the marshall amps in the fm9 but just can't seem to get it to sound like I want. Very fuzzy. The notes don't have a distinct clarity. I like a mid gain crunch thats not too dirty.
I find I have had more luck getting the sound I want with a deluxe reverb or twin with the box o crunch drive. then I wonder if some of those classic rock tones I'm used to listening to from the 70's isn't some blackface amp with a drive effect or driven. I heard rumours that some of the rock bands such as zeppelin used black face amps in studio. Not sure if its true. I haver to mention that this is more guitar specific. My number 1 a Custom shop 56 strat is what I'm having issues with. My LP R8 sounds better with the Marshall models, although there could be some improvement there. Many of the Marshall models to me sound too scooped.
I guess it will take more work to get the Marshall models to sound the way I want. Any tips would be appreciated.

Couple examples of what I'm looking for:






of this second song would love to get near the tone of the guitar at about the 1:33 mark. My deluxe reverb preset with the box o crunch gets close.
 
Figuring out Lifeson's tone and gear on a particular album/song/tour is like trying to nail jello to a wall. From what I can find, on the Fly By Night album he used:
  • Fender Super Reverb
  • Marshall 50 Watt w/Single 4x12 cabinet
That main riff in the titular song sounds like the Fender to me.
 
The 2203 is really good. I haven’t gelled much with the Marshall’s but I like this one. When I bought my FM3 I thought I’d be all over the Marshalls but it didn’t turn out that way.
 
The only Marshall I have ever owned is a JCM800 2203 and the Fractal model of this sounds just like it...or at least how I remember it. I am playing with a 1992 American Deluxe Strat (lace sensor pickups) and a Fender Player Telecaster.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
That uses a Hiwatt and a Silver Jubilee. Not saying it won't sound close, but those don't appear to be the same amps used on the album or in that era of Rush.
Click to expand...

I've got hiwatt preset with scenes that give me clean, to grit and pushed. I think I've got it sounding pretty good but I'm not really sure what a hiwatt is supposed to sound like. I'm going to test it out at an outdoor gig on the 14th where I can turn it up.

I assume this is a hiwatt.



Watching this and love what I'm hearing here:

 
Karl Houseknecht said:
That uses a Hiwatt and a Silver Jubilee. Not saying it won't sound close, but those don't appear to be the same amps used on the album or in that era of Rush.
Click to expand...
Here is what is in the 1975 Rush Fly By Night tourbook:

EQUIPMENT LIST
Guitars: 1968 Gibson ES-335 (Tobacco Sunburst),
1974 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe

Amplification: Fender Super Reverb,
Marshall 50 Watt w/Single 4x12 Cabinet

Effects: Cry Baby Wah-Wah, Maestro Echoplex
Maestro Phase Shifter PS-1A
Morley Volume Pedal
 
I would suggest you check out the Dirty Shirley models, to me the Dirty Shirley 1 captures what I consider to be a quintessential classic rock Marshall sound.

With the gain down low you can get a hairy clean (or a cleaner clean, if you prefer), and between the Master Volume and Gain controls the range spans what I would consider 70s rock tones, all the way up to good hard rock tones. It's a bit more tweaking but if you use the switching options (input boost/fat/saturation/bright), especially the bright, you might get that crunch you desire. Also worth noting is that fuzziness you describe might disappear in a loud band mix where it helps the amp cut through while blending with cymbals. Just my $0.02
 
59 SLP with some GB's.
I'm a dynamic mic guy with a 4x12 cab because they already have low end.
I use either a York Audio Checkmate 57 or 906 live.
That tone just sounds to me like a great low gain Marshall.
 
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DrGreencock said:
I would suggest you check out the Dirty Shirley models, to me the Dirty Shirley 1 captures what I consider to be a quintessential classic rock Marshall sound.

With the gain down low you can get a hairy clean (or a cleaner clean, if you prefer), and between the Master Volume and Gain controls the range spans what I would consider 70s rock tones, all the way up to good hard rock tones. It's a bit more tweaking but if you use the switching options (input boost/fat/saturation/bright), especially the bright, you might get that crunch you desire. Also worth noting is that fuzziness you describe might disappear in a loud band mix where it helps the amp cut through while blending with cymbals. Just my $0.02
Click to expand...
100% with the DS models! Those amp sims cover a lot of ground when it comes to classic rock tones.
 
golfnut said:
Working with the FM9T for almost 2 weeks now. I've really got the blackface amps sounding fantastic (Twin, deluxe, bandmaster) As well I'm loving my Vox AC30 sound. It was pretty easy to get them where I wanted. Its what I have the most experience and know that they should sound like
However I'd love to get a great Marshall sound. It was only a little over a year ago I started to get the itch for that sound for modern country\classic rock. I bought a Fargen DBC 50, which the 2nd channel was plexi with a switch for JCM800. Now probably its Fargen's take on the Marshall sound but it was close enough to the classic rock tones of the 70's that I was familiar listening to.
I've played with many of the marshall amps in the fm9 but just can't seem to get it to sound like I want. Very fuzzy. The notes don't have a distinct clarity. I like a mid gain crunch thats not too dirty.
I find I have had more luck getting the sound I want with a deluxe reverb or twin with the box o crunch drive. then I wonder if some of those classic rock tones I'm used to listening to from the 70's isn't some blackface amp with a drive effect or driven. I heard rumours that some of the rock bands such as zeppelin used black face amps in studio. Not sure if its true. I haver to mention that this is more guitar specific. My number 1 a Custom shop 56 strat is what I'm having issues with. My LP R8 sounds better with the Marshall models, although there could be some improvement there. Many of the Marshall models to me sound too scooped.
I guess it will take more work to get the Marshall models to sound the way I want. Any tips would be appreciated.

Couple examples of what I'm looking for:






of this second song would love to get near the tone of the guitar at about the 1:33 mark. My deluxe reverb preset with the box o crunch gets close.
Click to expand...

Another thing to take into consideration is post recording mix and EQ! The recorded tones you are hearing have most likely been EQ to sit in that mix which is going to change how you EQ the amp sim.
 
To me the Marshall sound is associated with big cabinets. And almost all of my IR’s are 412 Greenbacks and the Greenback curve. A Deluxe Reverb pushed into that combo can sound pretty Marshall-ish and plenty of other amps will do it too. It doesn’t have to be a Marshall. I almost always turn off the bright cap though because of that high mid honk. Which is also associated with Marshall’s. Cuts really well with a band but tough for me to enjoy for practice at home.
 
Shocked no one has mentioned this yet: The Fly By Night recording clearly has a clean sound layered on top of the overdriven sound, in fact it sounds like a DI track plugged straight into a desk.
 
strabes said:
Shocked no one has mentioned this yet: The Fly By Night recording clearly has a clean sound layered on top of the overdriven sound, in fact it sounds like a DI track plugged straight into a desk.
Click to expand...

I wasn't looking to get exactly that sound. Its the general character of on the cleaner side of a mid\low gain crunch.

I think I've found what I was looking for in the Brit Silver (Silver Jubilee) with a 4x12 V30. I worked on it all last night and a bit this morning. I've got a scene Rhythm that's a bit of a lower gain crunch. I play soft and its fairly clean and dig in a bit and its crunchier. Then scene 2 with the same amp and cab set higher gain for solos.
I admit I'm very overwhelmed with all the IR options and not being very educated on what normally works with each amp. Sometimes there is a recommendation of what cab works well with what amp on the wiki amp list but mostly not. I have no problem with the black face amps and vox amps as I am very familiar with those amps.
 
The best thing to do is build your tones to sound good to you. Don’t worry to much on what needs to be used with what to get such and such of a tone.

Your ears will be the deciding factor in all of it. I’m new to the fm9 platform but have messed around with other brands as well and what I get out of mine is exactly what I want to hear. So remember your ears are the key not your eyes or what anyone else does when they build there tones.
 
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